Red Tractor Beef lifetime Assurance.

[topground]

The history of Farmers losing control over their ability to obtain a fair price for their products shows that buyers will manipulate their pricing to suck farmers in. I understand that Goodman in Ireland did this and now all prime cattle go deadweight because the extra few pence he offered per kilo was enough for him to take enough trade away from the live weight sales to destroy them. Now he controls the price of beef because he has destroyed the competition for stock that the live markets provided.
The same applies to Red Tractor as manipulated by the Supermarkets. Having signed up to Farm Assurance, you have no say over what conditions are imposed on you by that scheme, you become a puppet dancing to their tune and you pay for the privelidge!
When Red Tractor, at the behest of their Supermarket masters, dictate that no assured animal can go through a market, the buyers have done away with the competition for our product that keeps our prices up.
The Supermarket business model is to dictate to their suppliers what they will pay for the product. In the livestock markets they have to compete for our product and they don't like that and they seek to control the supply chain through Red Tractor.
Anyone who believes different please feel free to explain to me how Farmers can have any infuence over what I believe will happen other than by refusing to give in to this FA blackmail.
This scheme has nothing to do with Food Safety and everything to do with market control.
Most farmers would not support any further government interference in their businesses which they would regard as the imposition of communism yet some will advocate signing up for FA because they see an extra few pence in the job.
Unless you are a one step thinker, you will see that the plan behind whole life farm assurance is control over the supply chain for the benefit of the buyers. The same as happened in the pig job..
@Simon Bainbridge I look forward to your explanation as to how what I predict cannot happen.

No attempt by @Simon Bainbridge to counter my argument about Farm Assurance being a market manipulation tool for the benefit of the buyers and the long term detriment of the Farmer in the price the producer receives. To me that says it all.
He might be a good farmer but he certainly won't be a good businessman long term because Waitrose won't look after hm when the livestock markets have gone and all competition by buyers has gone.

 

[danjen]

@topground i would guess @Simon Bainbridge would be a direct seller so your argument may well be falling on deaf ears

He is indeed an organic direct deadweight niche market seller,on a large farm.

 

[Steevo]

He is indeed an organic direct deadweight niche market seller,on a large farm.

Truly representative of his members then!

 

[gone up the hill]

Is there less accountability on twitter or something?
You pull in an NFU bod, he spouts the company line, inevitably he is asked questions and you get this:

Basically he ( like the entire top bods at the NFU ) wont engage with any members that dont agree with Stoneleigh's VERY NARROW minded views on subjects.. quite clear that this bloke thought he would get a lot of support on TFF for WLA but as soon as it became clear that wasn't the case ( which also is the case with 70% of the NFU's membership ) he throws his toys out of the pram and makes the very untrue comment above that it has been made clear he isn't welcome to post on TFF..

Anyone is welcome to post on TFF ( as long as they are not a troll which is clear this chap is not ) but you have to expect that not everyone will agree with you, very childish not to post just because other members don't agree with your views imo!!

 

[gone up the hill]

Afternoon All,I have now finished feeding and bedding cattle and sheep for the day.

From some of the posts it seems I am not allowed a view on the farming forum but I shall have one last post if that is OK

No I do not sit on RT board,but represent N'Lands livestock farmers on the NFU regional livestock board. We have had a number of meetings in the north of England where the support for whole life assurance has been between 90-100% in favour of WLA. These figures correspond exactly to the levels of farm assured stock going thru our auction marts both store and fat. In the early days of farm assurance our local marts very much encouraged us to join and even helped with the paper work.

Two examples of WLA in practice are the West Country beef and lamb PGI where all stock has to be born,reared and finished on assured farms in the West Country for all of its life and in Scotland where it has being going on for over 10 yrs and where an example was given recently of a beast that had been grazing in Cumbria and was picked as not qualifying for their scheme,so there are systems out there that work. I believe the West Country database is being supported by funding from beef SW and the NBA.

Just to clarify 90% of all cattle killed at point of slaughter are farm assured,so there is a proven demand for FA cattle and a proven will to supply.

On promotion you just need to go thru doors of Aldi,Lidl or Waitrose to see the use of red tractor on British Beef. AHDB have limited resources and are limited by state aid rules to get heavily involved in promotion,but I am not the one to talk to about that.

Caveman,world oil price I believe is supply and demand driven,but if price drops then fuel duty will drop in line,based on a percentage rather than a set amount. Not quite sure how we got onto oil, I would imagine there is bound to be some world wide politics mixed in there too!

It is absolutely the roll of the NFU to represent its members across All regions and sectors...I highlight ALL. I would imagine it is not an easy job at times! Look at difference between SW and NE on this particular issue. Northumberland coldest county in England and Cornwall probably the warmest,there are many challenges/differences out there.

Finally I would just like to say that it is ultimately the farmers choice whether he/she is farm assured or not. You have given some valid reasons as to why you do not want to be FA and some have said they can get as much for there stock else where, the choice is yours.

Good to discuss this with you all,you have given me food for thought.

@simonbainbridge : is it not true that only 30% of cattle that are sold as stores are currently farm assured?? ( so only 3 in 10 are assured )

As for the PGI comments, I as a SW fhinsher of both cattle/ sheep have NOT seen any price premium for my stock that are sold to the plants that qualify for PGI status V ones that don't qualify for the scheme!!

Why does my stock only receive a very small premium for being assured?? ( in the case of sheep its only 4pk/ liveweight )

Yes it is the role of the NFU to represent the views of ALL farmers, so WHY were the resloutions about farm assurance sent 4 months ago from both the Branches of Devon and Cornwall NFU branches totally ignored at HQ??

Also as the majority of NFU members are against WLA will you as a office holder ignore the majority of your members views and still support the new farm assurance rules or admit you are wrong and push the NFU to withdraw support for WLA??

 

[Steevo]

It will be interesting to see if there are any big changes in NFU positions over the next 12 months or so as a result of these moves. (not that it will change anything as the damage will already be done!)

 

[llamedos]

Livestock farmers’ anger over proposed changes to Red Tractor rules for beef
The Red Tractor Assurance scheme is seeking industry views on how it can reach a position where beef cattle spend all of their life on assured farms.

The organisation said the current definition of assurance for beef cattle – that it should spend the final 90 days on an assured holding – was no longer in line with consumer expectations

A spokesman for Red Tractor said: “We know from talking to shoppers that they believe the scheme provides them with assurance that the animal’s welfare is well cared for, but this cannot be certain if we only know about the last three months of the animal’s life.

“Schemes in most other commodity sectors adopted a ‘whole of life’ definition of assurance. In fact pigs and poultry require breeding stock also to come from assured farms, in the case of broilers covering the entire breeding pyramid. This makes the definition of assurance for beef cattle – that it should spend just the final 90 days on an assured holding – illogical.”

Roger Long, a cattle farmer from Shipdham near Dereham, chaired a meeting of the NFU livestock board for East Anglia in Newmarket on Wednesday. He said: “I just hope that the people who are doing the consultation listen to what the farmers are telling them.

“If this comes into force we will do it, but we don’t see the necessity of it. It will cause more disruption than it will cause good.

“We already have some of the highest livestock standards in the world and to try and put another thing on top of it seems wrong. Money should dictate a level for those animals that are not farm assured – if the supermarkets don’t want them, then they will have a low price, and that would bring those who are not farm-assured into line.”

The consultation is being conducted across all links in the beef food chain, but Red Tractor stressed it is not proposing that all farms join the current beef scheme. Alternative ways to assure store or suckler beef producers are being proposed with “lighter touch” standards appropriate to animals further away from finishing.

The consultation was sent out industry-wide on January 21. Responses are requested by March 27.

via http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/livesto...nges_to_red_tractor_rules_for_beef_1_3947082?

 

[topground]

Roger Long, a cattle farmer from Shipdham near Dereham, chaired a meeting of the NFU livestock board for East Anglia in Newmarket on Wednesday. He said: “I just hope that the people who are doing the consultation listen to what the farmers are telling them.

“If this comes into force we will do it, but we don’t see the necessity of it. It will cause more disruption than it will cause good.

“We already have some of the highest livestock standards in the world and to try and put another thing on top of it seems wrong. Money should dictate a level for those animals that are not farm assured – if the supermarkets don’t want them, then they will have a low price, and that would bring those who are not farm-assured into line.”
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/livesto...nges_to_red_tractor_rules_for_beef_1_3947082?

I have no idea who Roger Long is but it seems he is another top man in the NFU who is dancing to the tune of Red Tractor. How dare he make a statement like this on behalf of me as cattle breeder.
The cattle breeders in East Anglia who are members should immediately call for a vote of no confidence in the man for undermining his members bargainng position. If he doesn't resign then all cattle breeders in the area should resign from the NFU immediately.
What is the point of consultation when a senior representative of those being 'consulted' says we will take whatever sh!t is thrown at us whatever?
The sooner that Red Tractor realise that the NFU don't represent people who have seen that Red Tractor will damage their businesses long term, by handing control of the supply chain to the Supermarkets, the better.
Mr Long, you are a disgrace!

 

[llamedos]

I have no idea who Roger Long is but it seems he is another top man in the NFU who is dancing to the tune of Red Tractor. How dare he make a statement like this on behalf of me as cattle breeder.
The cattle breeders in East Anglia who are members should immediately call for a vote of no confidence in the man for undermining his members bargainng position. If he doesn't resign then all cattle breeders in the area should resign from the NFU immediately.
What is the point of consultation when a senior representative of those being 'consulted' says we will take whatever sh!t is thrown at us whatever?
The sooner that Red Tractor realise that the NFU don't represent people who have seen that Red Tractor will damage their businesses long term, by handing control of the supply chain to the Supermarkets, the better.
Mr Long, you are a disgrace!

As I read it this chappie is against WLA.

 

[topground]

As I read it this chappie is against WLA.

For the record I am against market manipulation by the Supermarkets.
I want to be able to see competition for the calves I produce. I don't want to be part of any integrated supply chain controlled by the Supermarkets. That is why I don't farm pigs or poultry.
None of those who support WLA on here have countered my argument that WLA will ultimately lead to the demise of livestock markets.
Red Tractor is no longer about food safety, it is now a tool used by ruthless big business to control and manipulate the livestock supply chain to keep prices to the producer under their control.
There are clearly a number of good farmers on here who have signed up to RT for short term gains. Long term that does not make them good businessmen because they have handed control of their outlets to their buyers.

 

[llamedos]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/eblex_report_shows_optimism_for_beef_prices_1_3849025

 

[exmoor dave]

Not red tractor

But in the post this morning we've had a producer agreement for us to fill in and sign for ABP.

They seem to want to know a lot of stuff that is nothing to do with them!

Including- "are you part of a environmental scheme, if yes, full details.

"Are you national trust tenants?"
No reasoning is given for this question which frankly is a bizarre question.

They also want feed labels, names and addresses of vets, AI technicians and nutritionists.

They want to know every detail of your farm including land types, stocking numbers, predicted young stock numbers.


Now we have to be red tractor to supply ABP.

Surely FABBL covers most of the above anyway.

Do ABP have no faith in RT? Even thou they only take FA stock??

 

[Henarar]

they will just want more and more info Dave so they know how tight they can squeeze when the time comes

 

[exmoor dave]

they will just want more and more info Dave so they know how tight they can squeeze when the time comes

We were sent the same form last autumn.
I told the fieldsman that I thought it was too invasive and I wouldn't be filling it out.
Never heard any thing more, they still took our cattle.

I'm intrigued by the national trust question thou?!
They could have asked if you were a tenant or given a list of landlords but instead asked specifically if we are NT tenants!

The trust did try to get a branded food scheme going a few years back including beef and lamb, but it didn't go anywhere.
wondered if they were going to have another bash but with ABP this time

 

[Tonka]

2 or 3 years back here in Yorkshire, Eblex had been asked by National Trust to find beef finishers on their own tenanted farms, so they could buy the beef and serve in their cafes/tearooms. Not certain if it ever got off the ground though....

 

[Steevo]

2 or 3 years back here in Yorkshire, Eblex had been asked by National Trust to find beef finishers on their own tenanted farms, so they could buy the beef and serve in their cafes/tearooms. Not certain if it ever got off the ground though....

You'd think they'd just ask themselves wouldn't you?!