Remainers having another go

[Muck Spreader]

Meanwhile , the Fishing was supposed to be agreed by 12th June and written up by the end of the month.

As the UK and EU resume negotiations over quotas, many snags remain to be unpicked over fishing quotas. Photograph: Pascal Rossignol/Reuters

European Union and British negotiators will face each other screen-to-screen as the latest round of Brexit talks get under way on Tuesday. During this four-day round, the most time has been allocated to one of the toughest issues: fishing rights.
Why is such a small industry such a big problem?
Fishing is a drop in the ocean of the UK economy (just 0.12% of economic output) but has become one of the most intractable issues of the Brexit talks. The reasons boil down to history, geography and politics. More than 100 categories of fish straddle EU-UK waters. Securing greater British control of these fish was a big promise of the 2016 Brexit campaign, one repeated by Boris Johnson ahead of his 2019 election victory.
But the EU has eight member states with a lot to lose, including Belgium, Denmark and Germany, who say they can trace their exploits fishing in British waters back hundreds of years.
What does the UK want?

More fish is the short answer. The government believes the deal agreed on British entry into the European Economic Community in 1973 was unfair and needs to be unpicked. That agreement – later enshrined in the common fisheries policy (CFP) – is based on historic catches. The result is that EU-based fleets land about eight times as much fish in UK waters as British fishermen do in EU waters, according to UK government data.
The UK wants to agree annual quotas with the EU based on the principle of “zonal attachment”, meaning agreeing shares based on the percentage of fish inside each side’s exclusive economic zone (a 200-mile area round the shore). British officials argue that this system would be fairer, more scientific and is already used by the EU in its annual quota-setting talks with Norway.
What does the EU want?
The EU wants the status quo, which allows member states to fish in British waters, with the most lucrative harvests for France, the Netherlands, Ireland and Denmark. The negotiating mandate drawn up by the 27 member states instructs the EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier – a former French fisheries minister - to “avoid economic dislocation” for European fleets, which have traditionally fished in British waters. For the EU this means “quota shares” that could be in place for as long as 25 years. EU officials say an annual negotiation is doable with Norway, where only six categories of fish are at stake.
What does the fishing industry say?
British fishing fleets were some of the most vocal supporters of Brexit. The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation is urging the government to stick to its guns and ensure “unfettered control over access” to UK waters, although it doesn’t rule out allowing in EU vessels. The shellfish sector, which is not covered by the CFP, wants to maintain access to EU markets and has warned that no-deal tariffs could cost £41m a year.
Are there enough fish in the sea?
Conservationists worry that Brexit is a big distraction from overfishing. Around 41% of commercial fish stocks in the north-east Atlantic, including the North Sea, are overfished, according to Oceana. The NGO thinks the British government’s fisheries bill does not go as far as the EU’s common fisheries policy in its intentions to prevent overfishing, although it and other conservationists have often criticised the EU for failing to meet promises to prevent the overexploitation of the seas.
Who holds the cards?
EU officials think that the UK probably has more leverage over fisheries than any other aspect of the Brexit talks. But the EU also has cards to play: 71% of British seafood exports go to the EU, while European fleets in UK waters often specialise in catching fish that are less popular with British consumers, such as herring. Former senior UK official Andy Lebrecht has warned that English fishing fleets risk losing access to French and Irish waters if talks sour.
Will there be a deal?
The two sides pledged to exert “best endeavours” to agree a fishing deal by 1 July to give crews time to adjust to changes from 2021. But hopes of an imminent breakthrough are low, despite hints of progress. Barnier has described both sides positions as “maximalist” and said fishing was “perhaps the only positive” outcome from the last round of negotiations. While the two sides are set to hold deeper technical discussions from Tuesday, the EU’s fishing member states have made it clear to Barnier that they are in no mood for compromise.
What if there is no deal on fisheries?
If the EU lives up to its oft-repeated threat, no deal on fisheries means no deal on anything. British-EU relations would fall into a more antagonistic phase that would stunt trade and cooperation, with tariffs levied on British fish being sold into the EU and many other goods.
No deal on fishing could also lead to skirmishes on the seas similar to the 2018 “scallop wars”. Earlier this year, it emerged that the UK had been quietly increasing its maritime defences to prevent a repeat of the 1970s cod wars. Navy boats are just a small part of the armoury, which includes satellite tracking, although British officials concede that they cannot control every square kilometre of British waters.
For now, both sides say they want a deal.

A third of all the UK's fish quota is owned by just five very wealthy families.

 

[Ashtree]

The leavers and eurosceptics never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum, which had a far more decisive remain majority than Brexit has today.
What goes around comes around.

 

[Henarar]

But it would be a drastically different arrangement. That being the case, the bulk of us would probably be in favour of it.

Yes and this is what many eu supporters don't understand, many that supported leaving the eu were not against an eu just didn't want to be part of the one we ended up with, which is our own leaders fault

 

[Henarar]

The leavers and eurosceptics never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum, which had a far more decisive remain majority than Brexit has today.
What goes around comes around.

yep spot on, we were taken in to it without being asked then remaining was sold on a lie but some never gave up it took a long time but what goes around comes around

 

[ollie989898]

I think a lot of people would be in favour of a trading agreement with other countries in Europe. But a central currency, government, court of human rights and free movement of people? No thanks.

 

[Ashtree]

I think a lot of people would be in favour of a trading agreement with other countries in Europe. But a central currency, government, court of human rights and free movement of people? No thanks.

But, but, there isn’t a central government, central currency is an opt in only, UK is not in Schengen area, and well human rights ..... ‘nuf said..

 

[Ashtree]

yep spot on, we were taken in to it without being asked then remaining was sold on a lie but some never gave up it took a long time but what goes around comes around

You were taken into it without being asked???
And you got two luminaries to like your “facts”...
Crikey, but Cameron really let the cats play with the ball of wool .....

 

[arcobob]

Are you saying that the EU has no intention to create a one government unified state which would. if it came about, imply no borders and a unified currency and fiscal policy ?

 

[Ashtree]

Are you saying that the EU has no intention to create a one government unified state which would. if it came about, imply no borders and a unified currency and fiscal policy ?

Yes. Yes. Yes.
IF some of those elements move forward, Britain above all can simply opt out!

As for a potentially more unified currency and fiscal policy ..... well that for those who are in favour, might very well be the tool needed to counter balance a destabilising and aggressive USA plus a wannabe world dominating China.
Britain’s Brexit go it alone policy, in the current US vs China arm wrestle, looks ever more like putting to sea in a dodgy dingy. The slip stream from the big ships, is sure to sink little boats.

 

[arcobob]

Yes. Yes. Yes.
IF some of those elements move forward, Britain above all can simply opt out!

As for a potentially more unified currency and fiscal policy ..... well that for those who are in favour, might very well be the tool needed to counter balance a destabilising and aggressive USA plus a wannabe world dominating China.
Britain’s Brexit go it alone policy, in the current US vs China arm wrestle, looks ever more like putting to sea in a dodgy dingy. The slip stream from the big ships, is sure to sink little boats.

And if the UK decides to opt out of the European federal state it will still be a contributor with no say in the outcome.The EU would have forced us out later rather than sooner in that case, so to my mind it is better to get the job done before we get more pain for no gain. This does not suit the EU chiefs for obvious reasons but they have been steadily building this bureaucratic monster and now it looks to be in a very parlous state.

 

[lloyd]

					Yes. Yes. Yes. IF some of those elements move forward, Britain above all can simply opt out! As for a potentially more unified currency and fiscal policy ..... well that for those who are in favour, might very well be the tool needed to counter balance a destabilising and aggressive USA plus a wannabe world dominating China. Britain’s Brexit go it alone policy, in the current US vs China arm wrestle, looks ever more like putting to sea in a dodgy dingy. The slip stream from the big ships, is sure to sink little boats. And if the UK decides to opt out of the European federal state it will still be a contributor with no say in the outcome.The EU would have forced us out later rather than sooner in that case, so to my mind it is better to get the job done before we get more pain for no gain. This does not suit the EU chiefs for obvious reasons but they have been steadily building this bureaucratic monster and now it looks to be in a very parlous state. Yes. Yes. Yes. IF some of those elements move forward, Britain above all can simply opt out! As for a potentially more unified currency and fiscal policy ..... well that for those who are in favour, might very well be the tool needed to counter balance a destabilising and aggressive USA plus a wannabe world dominating China. Britain’s Brexit go it alone policy, in the current US vs China arm wrestle, looks ever more like putting to sea in a dodgy dingy. The slip stream from the big ships, is sure to sink little boats. It's ok we are taking on 3000000 people from Hongkong.

 

[Farm buy]

					It's ok we are taking on 3000000 people from Hongkong.

seems a strange thing to do after so much talk about keeping out non nationals,
Uk Meps were having difficulty in putting their points across in EU meetings but some people in this forum think they were not attending meetings. Trump have already put his set of rules or demands to do a trade deal there and Im sure every country will have their own set of demands, If the negiotators on behalf of the Gov are weak in the Eu, they will be weak everywhere,

 

[Henarar]

You were taken into it without being asked???
And you got two luminaries to like your “facts”...
Crikey, but Cameron really let the cats play with the ball of wool .....

Yes there was no ref when we went in
So perhaps they know what facts are better than you

 

[Muck Spreader]

seems a strange thing to do after so much talk about keeping out non nationals,
Uk Meps were having difficulty in putting their points across in EU meetings but some people in this forum think they were not attending meetings. Trump have already put his set of rules or demands to do a trade deal there and Im sure every country will have their own set of demands, If the negiotators on behalf of the Gov are weak in the Eu, they will be weak everywhere,

If the UK's MEPs had all done their jobs, the UK would have had far more influence, as it had the most MEPs after Germany. But, with a very large proportion of them coming from UKIP and latterly the Brexit party, who did nothing other than collect salaries and claim their expenses, UK influence greatly diminished. And the taxpayer had to pay for these wastrels.

 

[ollie989898]

But, but, there isn’t a central government, central currency is an opt in only, UK is not in Schengen area, and well human rights ..... ‘nuf said..

You know full what the eventual aim is. It's been stated in policy documents.

No way hose!

 

[Henarar]

If the UK's MEPs had all done their jobs, the UK would have had far more influence, as it had the most MEPs after Germany. But, with a very large proportion of them coming from UKIP and latterly the Brexit party, who did nothing other than collect salaries and claim their expenses, UK influence greatly diminished. And the taxpayer had to pay for these wastrels.

was there any such thing as ukip when Maastricht was signed up ?
I know its all down to our own governments and mep's , been saying that for years
the British government could have told them where to stick it on numerous occasions they had a veto but they just took us deeper in against what turned out to be the majority of the peoples wishes and they never asked, so in the end when we were finally asked we told them.
as I said above if we had carried on dealing with the eu in the way mrs t did then we would most likely still be in it

 

[lloyd]

It looks like we are on course for a hard Brexit, with the EU
negotiators getting bored talking to us and now the Chinese
getting fed up too ,where are all these trade deals beneficial
to UK agriculture coming from?
Some will say USA ,we know what they want to send here but what will we be sending them and what quantity?

 

[Henarar]

It looks like we are on course for a hard Brexit, with the EU
negotiators getting bored talking to us and now the Chinese
getting fed up too ,where are all these trade deals beneficial
to UK agriculture coming from?
Some will say USA ,we know what they want to send here but what will we be sending them and what quantity?

Lots of British beef and lamb

 

[Ashtree]

It looks like we are on course for a hard Brexit, with the EU
negotiators getting bored talking to us and now the Chinese
getting fed up too ,where are all these trade deals beneficial
to UK agriculture coming from?
Some will say USA ,we know what they want to send here but what will we be sending them and what quantity?

If recent form is anything to go by, the hard Brexit will be plan A up to the eleventh hour, just as herd immunity was plan A in the Covid crisis.
But Boris wet his trousers when it came to crunch time on herd immunity.
My guess is that he didn’t bother to have his trousers cleaned after that, as he knows well that it will be soiled again pretty soon compliments of Mr. Barnier.

 

[Farm buy]

It looks like we are on course for a hard Brexit, with the EU
negotiators getting bored talking to us and now the Chinese
getting fed up too ,where are all these trade deals beneficial
to UK agriculture coming from?
Some will say USA ,we know what they want to send here but what will we be sending them and what quantity?

All very revelant serious questions