Reseeding ground that hasn’t been done for 25+ years

[JMTHORNLEY]

Help required all,

We have a patch of ground that I really need to improve and increase productivity in a big way. Never had a reseed in all the time I can remember and that’s a while now. I’ve mowed it for the last three years and grazed it the last 5.

I have experimented with fert, muck and spray. Subsoiling and everything inbetweeen ect. I now want to reseed, my worries are soil index’s as they are at 1.3 ish on both P and K. My big worries are weed banks on this piece, got a lot of trash in our soil that as soon as it’s disturbed wakens up redshank, rush, docks and thistles. This is from previous reseeds on farm but this over a 20 acre patch so I need this to be a successful reseed as it’s part of our main mowing ground now.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this? I need a cut off the ground first this year before we can do anything. I plan to put an aggressive grass like Westerwolds in first for a year and hope this will suppress the weeds by outgrowing them and smothering them

I am open to suggestions on best ways

 

[GTB]

Cut of silage then sow stubble turnips, kale or fodder rape or a mixture of all three. Graze over the autunm/winter then sow westerwolds or barley for wholecrop before going back to grass. That will give you two or three chances to kill weeds off if necessary.

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

Great way of thinking and that’s the lines I’m on. Really don’t want to go grass to grass.

Biggest issue round here is unless seed is in the ground by end of July at latest it just isn’t going to take and since Noah has been launching an ark a month here I’m pushing things for a decent cut by then. Not even got muck on yet

 

[Paul E]

Rice.

 

[brigadoon]

Great way of thinking and that’s the lines I’m on. Really don’t want to go grass to grass.

Biggest issue round here is unless seed is in the ground by end of July at latest it just isn’t going to take and since Noah has been launching an ark a month here I’m pushing things for a decent cut by then. Not even got muck on yet

But if you are getting an autumn winter forage crop why would taking an early and light cut of silage be an issue? Save your muck until ready to cultivate, cut what there is when you are ready and get a decent forage crop established - it should replace your "missing" silage?

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

But if you are getting an autumn winter forage crop why would taking an early and light cut of silage be an issue? Save your muck until ready to cultivate, cut what there is when you are ready and get a decent forage crop established - it should replace your "missing" silage?

That is the aim, my worries are lack of growth on our ground conditions as can lay wet over winter so cattle will paddle it up past October. We house by October/November anyway.

Folk round us struggle to get anything going past July sowing of any forage crop for some grazing through the winter hence the concern. Have you any suggestions for a fast establishing crop that would work as a weed suppressant? Once this is sorted I aim to reseed every five years going forward now and have some other reseeds going in when I can travel this week all being well that’ll help with the lack of fodder as I’ll feed to the weanlings

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Have you toyed with the idea of a spring-sown summer forage break as opposed to winter crop - often per unit of expenditure the returns alone can make it much more viable, plus you are removing the crop when it is much drier, and good choices can allow for autumn regrassing after... maybe wholecrop or a root crop to allow a couple of cracks at any weeds?
The downside of winter cropping older pasture is their is much more carbon and structure to be lost, without wanting to stir up the raging risk management debate going on the other thread.... what are summers like in your area?

If weed control hasn't been so effective, then a speedy second crop, instead of regrassing is still an option.

 

[Kidds]

Is there really going to be a big seedbank for weeds in there if it has been down to grass for 25 years?
No field I have ever done like that has much weed seed come up.

Have done plenty with a massive seedbank and a dose of Leystar if there are weed seedlings has done the job.

 

[brigadoon]

Is there really going to be a big seedbank for weeds in there if it has been down to grass for 25 years?
No field I have ever done like that has much weed seed come up.

Have done plenty with a massive seedbank and a dose of Leystar if there are weed seedlings has done the job.

We have found that unfortunately - big carry over of dockens so now we make sure it gets sprayed twice - once before ploughing and then again before cultivating for grass seed

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

Have you toyed with the idea of a spring-sown summer forage break as opposed to winter crop - often per unit of expenditure the returns alone can make it much more viable, plus you are removing the crop when it is much drier, and good choices can allow for autumn regrassing after... maybe wholecrop or a root crop to allow a couple of cracks at any weeds?
The downside of winter cropping older pasture is their is much more carbon and structure to be lost, without wanting to stir up the raging risk management debate going on the other thread.... what are summers like in your area?

If weed control hasn't been so effective, then a speedy second crop, instead of regrassing is still an option.

Yes I have, my issue is we usually go for 3 cuts off this piece and it’s not bad grass as it goes, a lot of weed grass in there but does see us through for the sucklers. I’d love to be able to but I physically can’t take the hit on the silage, we need it so the winter break crop looks the only option

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

Is there really going to be a big seedbank for weeds in there if it has been down to grass for 25 years?
No field I have ever done like that has much weed seed come up.

Have done plenty with a massive seedbank and a dose of Leystar if there are weed seedlings has done the job.

Yes, huge.

I was on the ground this morning and where the odd mole hill has come up there are dicks pushing through already and they must only be two days old

 

[Kidds]

Yes, huge.

I was on the ground this morning and where the odd mole hill has come up there are dicks pushing through already and they must only be two days old

Not a problem I have ever had.

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

Not a problem I have ever had.

That’d be docks

 

[GTB]

Great way of thinking and that’s the lines I’m on. Really don’t want to go grass to grass.

Biggest issue round here is unless seed is in the ground by end of July at latest it just isn’t going to take and since Noah has been launching an ark a month here I’m pushing things for a decent cut by then. Not even got muck on yet

Why not plough now then and put in a crop of barley for wholecrop? It will provide almost as much feed as two cuts of silage IME.

 

[Kevtherev]

Break crop of either brassicas or cereals.
Less risk of crop pests if any.
Check ph status and address any p&k shortages.
Crop of silage off in June and plough up for brassicas to graze in autumn followed by either a grass crop next spring or cereals undersown.

 

[milkloss]

I’m a bit of a stranger to forage crops tbh. Don’t they need grazing directly with stock? I’d rather risk a reseed than trying to graze forage and needing a grass fallback for them to destroy as well. I’m thinking mud!

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

Why not plough now then and put in a crop of barley for wholecrop? It will provide almost as much feed as two cuts of silage IME.

I’d like that very much, would you then look to put a forage crop in for autum or undersow with a grass mix and hope it’ll take off after the barley has been removed? I could then address any weed issues after wholecrop?

Break crop of either brassicas or cereals.
Less risk of crop pests if any.
Check ph status and address any p&k shortages.
Crop of silage off in June and plough up for brassicas to graze in autumn followed by either a grass crop next spring or cereals undersown.

I’ll not lie this is all new to me as I’ve never hadn’t to reseed before as never had the stock level to need worry but I’m vastly growing in numbers hence the issues of less and less fodder

PH are all good, corrected last year with 2T to the acre of lime and re tested end of Feb. P&K are an issue, both down at 1.3 but I phiscally have no idea how much I’d need to be spreading to get levels right for the crop? I’ve more muck than I know what to do with at present so that’s not an issue. Let’s say I go down the forage crop over winter route, how much P,K&N would I have to apply to get a good take on the crop and allow for crop depletion per acre?

I am very greatful for all the help here on this one, I don’t want to bang £2K worth of work into the soil only for it to fail and be left with a bigger problem

 

[Kevtherev]

I’d like that very much, would you then look to put a forage crop in for autum or undersow with a grass mix and hope it’ll take off after the barley has been removed? I could then address any weed issues after wholecrop?



I’ll not lie this is all new to me as I’ve never hadn’t to reseed before as never had the stock level to need worry but I’m vastly growing in numbers hence the issues of less and less fodder

PH are all good, corrected last year with 2T to the acre of lime and re tested end of Feb. P&K are an issue, both down at 1.3 but I phiscally have no idea how much I’d need to be spreading to get levels right for the crop? I’ve more muck than I know what to do with at present so that’s not an issue. Let’s say I go down the forage crop over winter route, how much P,K&N would I have to apply to get a good take on the crop and allow for crop depletion per acre?

I am very greatful for all the help here on this one, I don’t want to bang £2K worth of work into the soil only for it to fail and be left with a bigger problem

From elblex booklet
Remember swedes like Boron to prevent brownheart.

 

[GTB]

I’d like that very much, would you then look to put a forage crop in for autum or undersow with a grass mix and hope it’ll take off after the barley has been removed? I could then address any weed issues after wholecrop?



I’ll not lie this is all new to me as I’ve never hadn’t to reseed before as never had the stock level to need worry but I’m vastly growing in numbers hence the issues of less and less fodder

PH are all good, corrected last year with 2T to the acre of lime and re tested end of Feb. P&K are an issue, both down at 1.3 but I phiscally have no idea how much I’d need to be spreading to get levels right for the crop? I’ve more muck than I know what to do with at present so that’s not an issue. Let’s say I go down the forage crop over winter route, how much P,K&N would I have to apply to get a good take on the crop and allow for crop depletion per acre?

I am very greatful for all the help here on this one, I don’t want to bang £2K worth of work into the soil only for it to fail and be left with a bigger problem

It's up to you really. I've had undersown grass come very well but also had it fail too. Safest way is to sow up to 100kg an acre of barley on its own then get a good crop of wholecrop and either sow grass or fodder crop after. For undersowing you need to limit barley to 50kg an acre to give the grass a chance IME.

 

[Sharpy]

Some of my neighbours sows the grass and drills a cereal (any cereal they can get) on the same day. Idea is that the cereal nurses the reseed, but doesn't drown the grass out. Takes a crop of arable silage and gets a nice reseed.