Restricions on calves?

[steveR]

Thought I would ask this here for a bit more clarification.

Herself has bought a few calves this week for the first time in ages, one to suckle on a cow who had a dead calf, and a few more for luck Popped to Shrewsbury and then bought them from Drayton...

What set me pondering was the low prices in Shrewsbury for some 2 month old calves flagged as Arla, fair enough, I know that they are not supposed to go for slaughter as calves, but I wondered what was the law on this?

Then on Wed at Drayton, Herself bought a nice bull calf with an Arla flag, and I was expected to sign a document about the subsequent life of the calf AFTER I paid. Now this is the first time this had happened and set me thinking, if I have just bought a calf in market, what legal right does the owner have to insist that I follow some rule imposed by his milk buyer? Dont ever recall the matter being raised in the conditions of sale....

I seem to recall buying calves with a Tesco sticker that mau have been the same, but no paperwork then...

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

Was the calf announced from an Arla supplier before bidding started?
It does seem strange to tell someone what they can't do with their own property ( calf) after they've paid for it but please remember the vendor could lose their milk contract if slaughtered under 8 wks and they didn't make the rules either

 

[Scholsey]

So say if Mr A buys a dozen arla farm calves at market signs said document but Mr A has a absolute hovel, shouldnt be allowed a rabbit let alone calves and majority die with a couple of weeks which wouldnt be unheard of, what happens in that instance?

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

So say if Mr A buys a dozen arla farm calves at market signs said document but Mr A has a absolute hovel, shouldnt be allowed a rabbit let alone calves and majority die with a couple of weeks which wouldnt be unheard of, what happens in that instance?

They died, weren't slaughtered so not a problem I think

 

[Scholsey]

They died, weren't slaughtered so not a problem I think

Being a calf with some of the lads who buy calves at market near here would be worse than being slaughtered at a hour old.

 

[betweenthelines]

They died, weren't slaughtered so not a problem I think

Anyone else see the unpleasant flaw in the scheme? Calves can't be slaughtered but OK in they (are allowed to) die?

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

From what I can see it just means they're slaughtered at 8 wks instead, not what arla hopes to achieve

 

[Sid]

@farmer on a bike
@Fergieman

 

[Sandpit Farm]

I am not sure what the legal position is but a declaration implies you must keep the calf alive for 8 weeks. I guess the declaration means that it is not the dairy industry's problem - or Arla's for that matter. The early slaughter or euthanasia of that calf becomes a beef industry issue.

The timeframe means that you will have weathered the most expensive part of the calf's life and you would be weaning it or close to weaning it so would be unlikely to slaughter the calf at that point. Whilst there will be unintended consequences to this, I think it is right that the industry takes the issue seriously as it is wounding for reputation and they have to start somewhere.

 

[happycows]

Thought I would ask this here for a bit more clarification.

Herself has bought a few calves this week for the first time in ages, one to suckle on a cow who had a dead calf, and a few more for luck Popped to Shrewsbury and then bought them from Drayton...

What set me pondering was the low prices in Shrewsbury for some 2 month old calves flagged as Arla, fair enough, I know that they are not supposed to go for slaughter as calves, but I wondered what was the law on this?

Then on Wed at Drayton, Herself bought a nice bull calf with an Arla flag, and I was expected to sign a document about the subsequent life of the calf AFTER I paid. Now this is the first time this had happened and set me thinking, if I have just bought a calf in market, what legal right does the owner have to insist that I follow some rule imposed by his milk buyer? Dont ever recall the matter being raised in the conditions of sale....

I seem to recall buying calves with a Tesco sticker that mau have been the same, but no paperwork then...

In theory those 2 month old calves have no restrictions on them as the Arla farmer has kept them for the required 8 weeks, meeting his obligation.
Calves should be labelled or at least given out as being from a Arla farm at point of sale and the auctioneers need a lecture, but Unless you are buying calves to put in a slaughter house this should have zero influence on your purchase!
From what i can see of the calf trade currently there is probably a very small percentage that are worth so little they will end up as Kebabs or dog food.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

They died, weren't slaughtered so not a problem I think

pretty big problem for the calves!

 

[Fergieman]

Thought I would ask this here for a bit more clarification.

Herself has bought a few calves this week for the first time in ages, one to suckle on a cow who had a dead calf, and a few more for luck Popped to Shrewsbury and then bought them from Drayton...

What set me pondering was the low prices in Shrewsbury for some 2 month old calves flagged as Arla, fair enough, I know that they are not supposed to go for slaughter as calves, but I wondered what was the law on this?

Then on Wed at Drayton, Herself bought a nice bull calf with an Arla flag, and I was expected to sign a document about the subsequent life of the calf AFTER I paid. Now this is the first time this had happened and set me thinking, if I have just bought a calf in market, what legal right does the owner have to insist that I follow some rule imposed by his milk buyer? Dont ever recall the matter being raised in the conditions of sale....

I seem to recall buying calves with a Tesco sticker that mau have been the same, but no paperwork then...

It reads at both markets you were aware these were calves from an arla farm before buying, which is the way markets should be presenting them. Different markets have different ways to ensure you are aware of the obligation on the calves not to slaughter them before 8 weeks. Signing a declaration afterwards is just another way of ensuring you are aware of the scheme and as said above as long as your buying them to rear that shouldn't be an issue.

There is no law to enforce this but it has very serious consequences for the vendor if the rule is broken and ultimately the buck stops with the vendor.

 

[Fools Gold]

It reads at both markets you were aware these were calves from an arla farm before buying, which is the way markets should be presenting them. Different markets have different ways to ensure you are aware of the obligation on the calves not to slaughter them before 8 weeks. Signing a declaration afterwards is just another way of ensuring you are aware of the scheme and as said above as long as your buying them to rear that shouldn't be an issue.

There is no law to enforce this but it has very serious consequences for the vendor if the rule is broken and ultimately the buck stops with the vendor.

Do you not then feel it is perhaps the responsibility of the vendor to keep said calves until any time limits imposed by his/ her milk buyer has elapsed?

 

[dairyrow]

I'm very worried somebody could lose their contract through no fault of their own. Even the steering groups had problems with calves being shot. God knows whats going to happen when many more calves have the same rule on them.

 

[Farmer Keith]

I'm very worried somebody could lose their contract through no fault of their own. Even the steering groups had problems with calves being shot. God knows whats going to happen when many more calves have the same rule on them.

Its is not no fault of their own, they’re fully aware of the risks selling them at market, the option to rear them to 8 weeks is the safest one.

 

[dairyrow]

When does a dairy bull calf get classified as a beef animal according to red tractor? Would that require the dairy farm to have a beef audit as. well?

Alot of farms won't have the space, time, NVZ implications and no contract to turn a profit from it possibly.

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

pretty big problem for the calves!

Yes big problem for the calves but not the seller!
Don't think any calves should be slaughtered not even after at 8 wks but is a big problem and will take longer to change mindsets of buyers and producers

 

[Farmer Keith]

When does a dairy bull calf get classified as a beef animal according to red tractor? Would that require the dairy farm to have a beef audit as. well?

Alot of farms won't have the space, time, NVZ implications and no contract to turn a profit from it possibly.

Build sheds, employ staff, adjust stocking rates to meet NVZ responsibilities non of it is rocket science or you can try and build some relationships with a calf rearer that you can trust?

Ultimately the worst possible place for a calf with a minimal immune system is in the mart with calves from 50 other farms, I know I used to buy them, brought every bug back going. So why take the risk with what is one of the best paying contracts out there?

 

[steveR]

Was the calf announced from an Arla supplier before bidding started?
It does seem strange to tell someone what they can't do with their own property ( calf) after they've paid for it but please remember the vendor could lose their milk contract if slaughtered under 8 wks and they didn't make the rules either

Yes, it came up on the screen in Drayton. However in Shrewsbury, the Auctioneer was queried by a Dealer and the Owner who was in the audience, confirmed the case.

 

[steveR]

From what I can see it just means they're slaughtered at 8 wks instead, not what arla hopes to achieve

Kind of what I assumed in all honesty, having seen well grown B&W bulls go for nothing...