Restricions on calves?

[Sandpit Farm]

The issue is two fold as I see it.
1. Jersey cross bull calves.
2. Herds shut down with TB.


The first can be dealt with via sexed semen but may mean more cows miss the block requirements and mean more cull cows.
But it also means that heifers that used to be naturally served will now use artificial means including hormone treatments to sync them.

The second, having been shut down on and off , is a nightmare.
Finding a home for TB restricted calf can be a challenge when you in and out of restrictions. It's also a challenge for those looking for calves as well.

Is a reduced conception likely though with sexed semen? It is difficult to serve cows 'by the book' when there are literally so many bulling at the same time in a Spring calving herd and I wonder if that is the issue... you can't cut the same corners with sexed semen. Would be interested to know what Spring calvers on here think. Also, would you really need synch programs? Couldn't you just start serving the bigger ones a week or two early if they come bulling?

 

[Fools Gold]

probably the gold standard but the markets want to offer alternatives that provide the seller with options that still meet the standard. One of our farms has a contract with Buitelaar to achieve this result.

How about a “true gold standard” then? Implore people to rear the calves to a reasonable age and either finish sell as stores, keep less cows in order to free up space to achieve this, less milk produced, the price rises, everyone’s happy!

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

The answer here surely has to be collaboration. I can see there will be lots of dairy farms investing in calf accommodation to ensure they have capacity to rear all calves to 8 weeks. Those that don't want to invest should try to strike up relationships with locals who may consider rearing calves. To me, it is a good way to get youngsters into farming and to develop their own project.

The problem here could be scale. If your collaborator decides they want more calves than you can supply, they are going to get calves from elsewhere too.

This is a missed opportunity when it comes to TB. We know we are short of AFUs anyway and those that we have are generally for weaned calves and upwards. So that gap in capacity is calves up to 8 weeks old. If you can trust your collaborator and they can trust you and there is some level of margin in it for them, they could set up as an isolation unit to your farm allowing them to take calves from you regardless of TB status. The trust has to work both ways for this.

If this is the answer why is it not happening already .I thought the problem was that it doesn't stack up financially to rear these calves for beef and make a profit.
Tesco wanted this years ago when they started the tsdg and where going to solve this issue, did they?
I think the real issue is why as an industry are we producing calves with no value other than slaughter for pet food

 

[Sid]

How about a “true gold standard” then? Implore people to rear the calves to a reasonable age and either finish sell as stores, keep less cows in order to free up space to achieve this, less milk produced, the price rises, everyone’s happy!

What a reasonable age? 12, 24 36 months?
A percentage of their contemporaries adult life? 20% of 5 years is 12 months, 20% of the old girl at 18? 43 months.
Then look at quality or quantity of life?

Those that "care" often switch to chicken or pork.
56 days for a fattened intensive chicken?

And then look at fish farms.

If this is the answer why is it not happening already .I thought the problem was that it doesn't stack up financially to rear these calves for beef and make a profit.
Tesco wanted this years ago when they started the tsdg and where going to solve this issue, did they?
I think the real issue is why as an industry are we producing calves with no value other than slaughter for pet food

Yeah and Tesco turn round and said they didn't want any beef from B&W animals.

Hypocritical!

 

[Farmer Keith]

Is a reduced conception likely though with sexed semen? It is difficult to serve cows 'by the book' when there are literally so many bulling at the same time in a Spring calving herd and I wonder if that is the issue... you can't cut the same corners with sexed semen. Would be interested to know what Spring calvers on here think. Also, would you really need synch programs? Couldn't you just start serving the bigger ones a week or two early if they come bulling?

I just use an easy calving AA on the heifers here, sexed makes it easier as I can comfortably breed replacements off my best cows now.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

Those that "care" often switch to chicken or pork.
56 days for a fattened intensive chicken?

I think a large chicken would only be 42 days now. Your supermarket chickens on offer would be nearer 36 than 56 days.

 

[betweenthelines]

BCMS

Can all and sundry access that? They shouldn't be able to.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

My cows are largely jersey and I've sold 200+ beef calves in the last three week with no issues. Not huge money but they've all found a home bar for a couple of sets of twin heifers that I'll keep on for a while. I had 30 calves in Exeter market today but otherwise I've sold them privately and if you wanted a pen with some nice shapely bull calves in then you had to take a jersey bull or two as well .

If tb restricted I'd be buggered.

 

[Sid]

I just use an easy calving AA on the heifers here, sexed makes it easier as I can comfortably breed replacements off my best cows now.

But you should be breeding from you "highest genetic" heifers

 

[Sid]

Can all and sundry access that? They shouldn't be able to.

Part of being with certain milk buyers.
Allow them access to your BCMS records

 

[Sid]

My cows are largely jersey and I've sold 200+ beef calves in the last three week with no issues. Not huge money but they've all found a home bar for a couple of sets of twin heifers that I'll keep on for a while. I had 30 calves in Exeter market today but otherwise I've sold them privately and if you wanted a pen with some nice shapely bull calves in then you had to take a jersey bull or two as well .

If tb restricted I'd be buggered.

It's that final line is the critical part.

 

[cull cows]

What happens when these jersey and kiwi cross calves start getting killed once they reach 8 weeks old because they will do and already are being...Will arla raise the age to 6 months then 12 months..probably is the answer

 

[Cows 'n grass]

It's that final line is the critical part.

Sure is.

Along with many others I don't really have a definite tb plan. I have the space to keep hundreds of calves because as cows calve they are turned out creating space to build bale pens for calves. We had 300+ calves on milk a fortnight ago but I don't fancy trying 500+ for 8 weeks.

 

[Farmer Keith]

But you should be breeding from you "highest genetic" heifers

You just lose a year and they’re not all world beaters! It also means I never breed off the 10% that don’t live up to expectations. AI is not an option as all the heifers are served outside away from the steading, just a suggestion, works well here and keeps the heifer rearing simple. Let bull in, look over the fence once a day, job done.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

What happens when these jersey and kiwi cross calves start getting killed once they reach 8 weeks old because they will do and already are being...Will arla raise the age to 6 months then 12 months..probably is the answer

They don't really exist any more. I don't think I know anyone using conventional semen in a block calving situation any more.

 

[cull cows]

They don't really exist any more. I don't think I know anyone using conventional semen in a block calving situation any more.

I was in a abattoir a couple of weeks ago and there was 35 calves all 8-12 weeks of a Arla farm...the farm was under Tb though so a bit different

 

[Sid]

You just lose a year and they’re not all world beaters! It also means I never breed off the 10% that don’t live up to expectations. AI is not an option as all the heifers are served outside away from the steading, just a suggestion, works well here and keeps the heifer rearing simple. Let bull in, look over the fence once a day, job done.

I agree 90%, having lost to TB and having to buy cows I haven't, reluctantly , put all my heifers to B&W.
As you say have to use bulls.

 

[Sid]

I was in a abattoir a couple of weeks ago and there was 35 calves all 8-12 weeks of a Arla farm...the farm was under Tb though so a bit different

What breed?

 

[Kiss]

We only dip our toe in the water with sexed I’m to scared to loose the fertility, we are reducing our dairy ai service period

It’s Tb that would Knacker us not the finding the calves suitable homes

 

[DRC]

When does a dairy bull calf get classified as a beef animal according to red tractor? Would that require the dairy farm to have a beef audit as. well?

Alot of farms won't have the space, time, NVZ implications and no contract to turn a profit from it possibly.

Keep less cows then. Calves shouldn’t be seen as a mere by product of being a dairy farm.