River Lugg, Herefordshire

[fieldfarmer]

Aquatic environment protection is seldom an issue for road schemes.

Also the resources thrown into a new road scheme are totally different to those available for maintaining an existing watercourse or flood structure.

If you are building a new road and protected species are in the way you get a NE licence and move them. You can't justify that for a river dredging job or replacing a flood gate.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[Ramrod]

I used to sit on an IDB (won't say which), at the AGM the chairman wasn't able to attend, the vice chairman took the meeting.

After the main business was finished he introduced the Wildlife officer who was to give a presentation on water voles.

He introduced the young lady and said 'how's this going and are you getting on top of these bloody things'

 

[quattro]

so key species are protected by law from I presume maintenance
so why aren’t they protected by law from them been flooded by the ea holding back maintanence
there in a win win situation

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

so key species are protected by law from I presume maintenance
so why aren’t they protected by law from them been flooded by the ea holding back maintanence
there in a win win situation

I asked the question regularly and never got a believable answer: "We've been doing this maintenance for decades and this area has thriving Water Vole populations. Is that because of our work or despite it?"

My understanding is that the major cause of the crash in water voles was the release of Mink by animal rights activists. Our biggest populations were in places like East London where the public disturbance is deeply Mink unfriendly.

 

[Brisel]

Don’t forget the impact of otters and raptors whose numbers have increased considerably. And badgers!

 

[steveR]

18" roughly

So not mahooosive? Farm engineer would soon fabricate one. There is a small one near to us on land that was owned by Herself's family. It was sticking yonks ago, and I freed it up with a judicous thump from a lump hammer It's not our problem now, however, I suspect it has seized again...

Can't be beyond the whit of man to fabricate something like yours from stainless (or something) and stop or reduce, the corrosion problems from salt water.

 

[Exfarmer]

I asked the question regularly and never got a believable answer: "We've been doing this maintenance for decades and this area has thriving Water Vole populations. Is that because of our work or despite it?"

My understanding is that the major cause of the crash in water voles was the release of Mink by animal rights activists. Our biggest populations were in places like East London where the public disturbance is deeply Mink unfriendly.

We had water voles at the bottom of my garden. When I came here 12 years ago there was a thriving population and we regularly saw them. Have not seen one for at least 5 years may be longer, and there definitely has been no river maintenance in that time. There was the arrival of a large dog otter, who took up residence in a stump the other side. He has now either moved on or died, but we have seen no large fish either, certainly nothing at all since the water went foul in the summer as it was covered in A carpet of duckweed for several months.
We have seen no ducklings since the arrival of the otter either

 

[Ffermer Bach]

The root of the problem is that the environment, especially key species, are protected in law so it's a criminal offence to interfere with them. Defence from flooding is not a legal duty so comes lower in the risk balance. It will take a major debate and legal change to redress this balance.

The failing flood defences are just a matter of political priority though: the money is pushed into sexy new defence schemes that politicians can announce and be photographed with and away from maintaining what's already there. This started about 15 years ago and carries through into the loss of key knowledge as experienced staff leave in despair at the decline. I hear the most worrying thing is that many of the staff now lack the knowledge and experience to know just what risks are being taken. Baseline reset syndrome means those staff engaged since the decline started think the current situation is normal and acceptable.

Nothing is ever as simple as people make out.

I think this is an example of the "law of unintended consequences", yes, it's great to protect certain animals and ecosystems, but we need to think about peoples homes and farming too. I think we have too many MP's with no life experience outside the "London bubble" who only listen similar types (who often tend to be Wild Justice/RSPCA etc). I think we will only have that debate when we either run out of food or have a catastrophic flooding event.

 

[Exfarmer]

I think this is an example of the "law of unintended consequences", yes, it's great to protect certain animals and ecosystems, but we need to think about peoples homes and farming too. I think we have too many MP's with no life experience outside the "London bubble" who only listen similar types (who often tend to be Wild Justice/RSPCA etc). I think we will only have that debate when we either run out of food or have a catastrophic flooding event.

There are probably ten times more votes in doing something seen as being beneficial to wildlife opposed to spending money on things like flood defence, which only really affects a few hundred thousand.
just go on facebook and look at the campaign by Greenpeace anti Neonics , the posts in favour probably outnumber the posts from people with knowledge by 50 to 1.
i had an argument with a guy I know the other day, a company director , who passionately believed Greenpeace would be telling the 100% truth on this issue, absolutely refusing to take in anything I said. Up till then I thought he was a good old boy

 

[steveR]

There are probably ten times more votes in doing something seen as being beneficial to wildlife opposed to spending money on things like flood defence, which only really affects a few hundred thousand.
just go on facebook and look at the campaign by Greenpeace anti Neonics , the posts in favour probably outnumber the posts from people with knowledge by 50 to 1.
i had an argument with a guy I know hee other day, a company director , who passionately believed Greenpeace would be telling the 100% truth on this issue, absolutely refusing to take in anything I said. Up till then I thought he was a good old boy

And Boris and his cohorts know this, and in BoJo's case, this viewpoint is reinforced on a daily basis by his latest squeeze, Princess Nut-Nut, as the press call her, whispering in his ear!

 

[Brisel]

I think this is an example of the "law of unintended consequences", yes, it's great to protect certain animals and ecosystems, but we need to think about peoples homes and farming too. I think we have too many MP's with no life experience outside the "London bubble" who only listen similar types (who often tend to be Wild Justice/RSPCA etc). I think we will only have that debate when we either run out of food or have a catastrophic flooding event.

Ben Goldsmith is still Tweeting furiously about what species are in decline and how we are failing them. Last time he was blathering on about Turtle Doves I reminded him that there wasn't much habitat for them inside the M25 and he should get out & see what farmers were doing for them!

I still can’t work out why Gove made him an advisor! Vapid twit

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

So not mahooosive? Farm engineer would soon fabricate one. There is a small one near to us on land that was owned by Herself's family. It was sticking yonks ago, and I freed it up with a judicous thump from a lump hammer It's not our problem now, however, I suspect it has seized again...

Can't be beyond the whit of man to fabricate something like yours from stainless (or something) and stop or reduce, the corrosion problems from salt water.

There are 7 large ones on the watercourses between Bow and Aveley in East London. A number of them have long term operational issues. Those on the Beam River at the Ford plant are both about 4M x 3M. All of these are CRITICAL to the flood protection of large numbers of properties. There are more on the South Bank which I'm not competent to comment on the state of.

Most of the property occupants "protected" by them have no idea that they are at risk.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I know Isabella Tree (and Knepp Estate) get a bit of a bad press on here, but I was listening to a podcast interview she did with the sustainable food trust, and she said something like "broad canopy woodland is very species poor and undynamic" and the converse to that, is that farming (and managing for food production and wildlife) is not only good for wildlife, but also giving us food (and the landscape everyone loves). I think the pendulum is swinging too far towards wilding (often by people who know nothing about it), from chemical farming (plough, NPK, spray) at the other extreme, and we need to find the middle ground, that allows farming, wildlife and cleaning ditches, drainage channels too.

 

[Ted M]

I know Isabella Tree (and Knepp Estate) get a bit of a bad press on here, but I was listening to a podcast interview she did with the sustainable food trust, and she said something like "broad canopy woodland is very species poor and undynamic" and the converse to that, is that farming (and managing for food production and wildlife) is not only good for wildlife, but also giving us food (and the landscape everyone loves). I think the pendulum is swinging too far towards wilding (often by people who know nothing about it), from chemical farming (plough, NPK, spray) at the other extreme, and we need to find the middle ground, that allows farming, wildlife and cleaning ditches, drainage channels too.

Absolutely, as with most things in life its all about balance. Not extremes.

 

[steveR]

There are 7 large ones on the watercourses between Bow and Aveley in East London. A number of them have long term operational issues. Those on the Beam River at the Ford plant are both about 4M x 3M. All of these are CRITICAL to the flood protection of large numbers of properties. There are more on the South Bank which I'm not competent to comment on the state of.

Most of the property occupants "protected" by them have no idea that they are at risk.

Quiet word to the local MP, then bring it to the Press...

I wouls say that 4m x 3m falp valves are possibly beyond the averge farm engineer,.

 

[Henarar]

or have a catastrophic flooding event.

that's what it took down on the Somerset levels to get them to do something, would have thought it quite obvious when there are river bridges with three arches and the two outside ones are silted up that something needs to be done after all they wouldn't have bothered to build them with three arches If they didn't bloody need to

 

[Top Tip.]

that's what it took down on the Somerset levels to get them to do something, would have thought it quite obvious when there are river bridges with three arches and the two outside ones are silted up that something needs to be done after all they wouldn't have bothered to build them with three arches If they didn't bloody need to

Have they cleaned out the drains in the Somerset levels?

 

[Henarar]

Have they cleaned out the drains in the Somerset levels?

I think they have done some down there, don't go that way very often, trouble is they hadn't done anything for so long there was so much to come out.
I find the place a bit bemusing really, never right having the river higher than the house roof. Stay on the hills I think, it tends to run away up here

 

[Bongodog]

Around here, there were a lot of developers building on land aquired from the Development Corporation that did not have proper formal arrangements with the local authorities, this is still happening. IKWYM about the issues with taking on a "POS", as Inhad to work hard to dissuade my successor from taking on land that would have incorpororated buffer storage!

Two local sites were going to go for private lighting contractors, and was involved with a conversation to allow the PC take over the Lighting as we are, unusually, a lighting authority.

Our Parish Council ended up assuming responsibility for a small number of streetlights, the vast majority of ours are County Council but we have a handful on footpaths that were District Council plus around 20 in car parks on Council estates that belonged to the District. They refused to pay any longer and pushed them to us so we end up paying for lighting on their car parks !!! As to the POS, the 1st one we walked away from looked good on the plan and came with a nice dowry but also came with a huge collection of plastic drainage crates underneath. We had already had problems with a previous development that gained a sewage pumping station in the corner of the POS. When it blocked the developers tried to claim it was ours.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

So not mahooosive? Farm engineer would soon fabricate one. There is a small one near to us on land that was owned by Herself's family. It was sticking yonks ago, and I freed it up with a judicous thump from a lump hammer It's not our problem now, however, I suspect it has seized again...

Can't be beyond the whit of man to fabricate something like yours from stainless (or something) and stop or reduce, the corrosion problems from salt water.

The non return flaps have been replaced, the problem is that the old steel pipes are seriously corroded and the flaps no longer seal properly. There is a Penstock in the centre of the wall which is about 25' down and this is also failing as in the summer time it is kept shut, but now it leaks as well.
It took the EA two years to even go and look at it as they needed someone who was qualified to work in confined spaces. They also needed the correct H & S equipment which they no longer have and when they work in these restricted spaces they have to hire the safety equipment at great cost. When questioned as to why they didn't get contractors to do this work who had the correct equipment the answer was there was no money in the budget!!