Robotic milking

[Ballygreenan]

Hi All, I'm new to thefarmingforum and I'm fascinated with the discussion on robotic milking. We're currently milking through a 28 year-old 4 point herringbone swingover parlour and SLOWLY working our way towards getting the herd numbers built up to a level where I can justify installing a robot.

More than likely I will probably go with Lely, they seem to have a good set-up locally for servicing and back-up. The only other one I would consider would be DeLaval. I'd like to know though how you find your robots in terms of running costs? I heard of one guy who was apparently ripping out his Lely's to go back to a parlour, seemingly because he was being 'forced' to change the compressor unit?? (Only 3rd hand info - so take with a pinch of salt!) What would you say the big drawbacks are?

 

[happycows]

they are not cheap in any terms to buy,service or run. It will knock any hopes of low cost milk production. They do use a huge amount of compressed air for a start which is expensive to build. you almost have to have it banging out full capacity to make it half acceptable. Big drawbacks. Initial cost, high water and electricity usage and high cost per litre to cover service and warranty. you could wing it for a while but you will at some point get a very nasty shock. one and two of those are not a problem for me now,three I'm working on and four i have to live with if i want to sleep at night.

 

[Baling Hay]

they are not cheap in any terms to buy,service or run. It will knock any hopes of low cost milk production. They do use a huge amount of compressed air for a start which is expensive to build. you almost have to have it banging out full capacity to make it half acceptable. Big drawbacks. Initial cost, high water and electricity usage and high cost per litre to cover service and warranty. you could wing it for a while but you will at some point get a very nasty shock. one and two of those are not a problem for me now,three I'm working on and four i have to live with if i want to sleep at night.

Sounds as if you don't think robots are that great anymore?

 

[happycows]

I love my robot. i really want another one. but....... i look at the lely advert constantly flashing up on the farmers weekly website stating 24 percent extra milk and it's starting to grate, although i don't have a lely the fact is i suspect if you have to keep your cows in istaed of letting them out,feed more concentrates at 300 a ton, and pay more electric,water,service and repair costs aswell as funding the thing i don't think their 24 percent extra milk will be anywhere near enough to cover it.

Other robot users do you agree?

 

[sleepy]

I love my robot. i really want another one. but....... i look at the lely advert constantly flashing up on the farmers weekly website stating 24 percent extra milk and it's starting to grate, although i don't have a lely the fact is i suspect if you have to keep your cows in istaed of letting them out,feed more concentrates at 300 a ton, and pay more electric,water,service and repair costs aswell as funding the thing i don't think their 24 percent extra milk will be anywhere near enough to cover it.

Other robot users do you agree?

Why are they still so expensive?

That are not that complicated, really, are they?

Most of the mechanics in them are bought in from industrial robot manufacturers.

So why isn't the price coming down on them?

 

[happycows]

I guess they charge as much as they can get away with.

there are some good value second hand ones about. I spoke to this chap. they done 3/4 months work, i think in cumbria area and got took out again 2010. they are now in Ireland and have been kicking about getting cheaper and cheaper. still quite a lot to find, especially when your milk buyer has been shafting you for the last 8 months.

http://www.agriaffaires.co.uk/used/...ood-merlin-225-robotic-milking-equipment.html

Down side is it's not the latest model. no doubt they'd put just as much milk in the tank but new sparkles. I bet you'd get them for 42,500 each and they'd be good value in the robot scheme of things.

 

[clem dog]

Somebody must have bought them then!
Just coming up as sold in my computer!

 

[happycows]

Ah so they are. they were not last week. They have been advertised on donedeal and agriaffaires for the last 6 months.

 

[Chips]

If you have the layout to graze ,cost of production can be reasonably good .our overall concentrate per litre is below 0.3kg just over 2 ton for 8300 litres sold plus all calves reared on whole milk for 12 weeks and we are on a marginal dairy farm .Sure electric is higher due to making compressed air but the labour saving more than covers that and the servive contract . Intial cost is very high ,but it is always compared to doing nothing and carrying on with the old parlour Father built , priced against a herringbone of similar spec plus shed to cover that and collecting yard and backing gate I would say they are very similar on smaller farms with the added benifit of having strong residual values .but as said the build cost of them must be very little but development costs huge

 

[Ballygreenan]

I've looked at both options, a new 'all singing, all dancing' herringbone in a new shed, adequately insulated (remember those COLD winters - everything froze?!) the cost is very similar to the robot, but with the robot you don't have to stand behind them 2X a day every day, or TRY to find someone to do it for you. I realise there is still a tie to the machine and work to do but I believe you should be working more cleverly and surely with even a 10% - 15% increase in production it's bound to be better. What strikes me from visiting 'robo-milking' farms is how TOTALLY relaxed everyone is, both bovine and human!

It's sometimes good to hear the negatives too though. I'm wondering if the installation of solar PV panels and the drilling of a bore-well would help off-set the increased running costs? Anyone tried this?

 

[pearson ni]

If you use a heat recovery unit you will see a lot of savings. As heating the water for the robots is the most expensive part of robotic milking. It cost roughly 100 kwh per day to run a 2 box insentec astrea 40 khw of the 100 kwh is used heating a boiler for the robots. If you install the heat recovery you will decrease the cost of the heating by half roughly.

 

[Ballygreenan]

Aye, that was my other consideration, I was talking to a friend of mine who knows a bit about bulk-tanks and stuff, he was raving about the benefits of heat recovery. Is there a small type of plate-cooler available for robots? What about taking heat recovery from the compressor fan, rather than just using it as a space heater for the office?

 

[happycows]

If you use a heat recovery unit you will see a lot of savings. As heating the water for the robots is the most expensive part of robotic milking. It cost roughly 100 kwh per day to run a 2 box insentec astrea 40 khw of the 100 kwh is used heating a boiler for the robots. If you install the heat recovery you will decrease the cost of the heating by half roughly.

Am i right in thinking your robot does not use compressed air. This is a big cost. does your 100 kw include milk cooling? if it does that is great and would be twice as low to run as mine.. Mine is using 120kwh a day. the only two places i could save are putting in a larger water heater to use all night electric as i need to refill and heat in the afternoon before evening wash and the tanker comes. I also have to build some more ice afternoons as it will all be gone by 6/7pm. A ice builder would help but at over £9k payback was very long indeed.

Ballygreenan the real shock for you will be the fact you could run your parlour for a year for what you will pay to finance and service a bot in probably less than a week.

 

[fraggle]

Aye, that was my other consideration, I was talking to a friend of mine who knows a bit about bulk-tanks and stuff, he was raving about the benefits of heat recovery. Is there a small type of plate-cooler available for robots? What about taking heat recovery from the compressor fan, rather than just using it as a space heater for the office?

We have 1 lely A3,we just use same plate cooler we had when we ran old parlour (6 point herringbone) plus heat recovery from the refridgeration unit on ice bank tank to preheat water for robot boiler, saves a fair bit of power. To me biggest electric draw of the robot is the steamer which is runing all the time. Just got a lot of solar pannels connected last week, which seems to be cover most of our daytime electric, even on cloudy days

 

[Ballygreenan]

Ballygreenan the real shock for you will be the fact you could run your parlour for a year for what you will pay to finance and service a bot in probably less than a week.​

I think I'm prepared for higher servicing costs. Would the overall performance and health benefits not outweigh that though? I like the sound of your solar panels Fraggle, is it possible for you to post a few photos of your set-up? I hope it works out well for you - brilliant idea!

 

[Blue.]

One big thing with the robot is expansion,you can't just milk a few more!

You have to go the whole Hogg and set up with another robot and cows.

 

[happycows]

​

I think I'm prepared for higher servicing costs. Would the overall performance and health benefits not outweigh that though? I like the sound of your solar panels Fraggle, is it possible for you to post a few photos of your set-up? I hope it works out well for you - brilliant idea!​

That is good. i just want to make a point. Make sure you are sure and fully aware before you commit. you will get lots of benifits from a robot. not all of the benifits are free though. very seldom you get something for nothing.

Eulb is also correct the next step after the first one is a big one again. no softly softly catchie monkey about it.

 

[Ballygreenan]

I'd dearly love to be in the position to put in two 'bots, considering that on most systems it is a more cost-effective approach. Like with Lely where the compressor serves the two boxes and so on. Our major difficulty however is the restricted size of our farm at a recently reduced 85 acres (courtesy of a nicely re-aligned road - lovely!) I don't think we could manage 120+ cows even if we went to a total confinement scenario. Not unless we win the lottery! Then we could afford to buy another place for young-stock and dry cows, buy the robots straight out and still not worry about costs! Considering we never buy lottery tickets though...........

 

[Lewis]

Am I right in thinking that if you have one older Lely and wanted to add another robot that you would have to find the same model again where as with a full wood you can have a 10yr old machine marking with a brand new one? What about a delaval?

 

[pearson ni]

Happy cows yes we use compressed air for all the valves gates etc. The robot arm is servo drives. Using an ice builder you will get great results with a tube cooler.