Romney

[Estate fencing.]

Kitten comes out of cat so I'd recon so. Can't beat a milf.....

Oh dear that goes to show I use the word milf more than milk on my phone doesn’t it!

 

[beardface]

Oh dear that goes to show I use the word milf more than milk on my phone doesn’t it!

Thats lockdown for you.

 

[delilah]

My wee lambed 1 week ago. I live in N. Ireland. When should l shear this wool monster? I don't want her to lose her milk as she's 2 very big lambs

If you're a knitter and have a Romney, a couple of websites you may find interesting.

www.romneymarshwools.co.uk
www.spinningearthwool.co.uk

 

[Global ovine]

Pre lamb shear is a total no no here .

Prelamb shearing is a very common management tool in NZ's South Island, where almost all the fine woolled sheep are winter shorn in their 2nd trimester (no risk of metabolic disease or harm to pregnancies) and many strong woolled breeds, Romneys being the main breed. These fleeces are 12 months growth and shorn with cover combs.
In the warmer and wetter North Island, twice yearly shearing is more common (known as 2nd shears). However, given the current wool returns and cost of shearing this pattern may change.

 

[Hilly]

Prelamb shearing is a very common management tool in NZ's South Island, where almost all the fine woolled sheep are winter shorn in their 2nd trimester (no risk of metabolic disease or harm to pregnancies) and many strong woolled breeds, Romneys being the main breed. These fleeces are 12 months growth and shorn with cover combs.
In the warmer and wetter North Island, twice yearly shearing is more common (known as 2nd shears). However, given the current wool returns and cost of shearing this pattern may change.

This is Scotland .

 

[Hilly]

Prelamb shearing is a very common management tool in NZ's South Island, where almost all the fine woolled sheep are winter shorn in their 2nd trimester (no risk of metabolic disease or harm to pregnancies) and many strong woolled breeds, Romneys being the main breed. These fleeces are 12 months growth and shorn with cover combs.
In the warmer and wetter North Island, twice yearly shearing is more common (known as 2nd shears). However, given the current wool returns and cost of shearing this pattern may change.

When you get minus 7 and side ways sleet for days on end at lambing you don’t want newly shorn ewes outside you want Wooly ewes in a shed

 

[JD-Kid]

There are farmers achieving these results regularly as showing up in bench marking programmes. It's not the breed that determines it, but the allocation of pasture on offer. The 7cm pasture height rule is a well researched conclusion. All sheep with a history of specifically being selected for maternal traits are capable of this. Quantity is spring, when quality is all good, is the seasonal top priority.

I chose to retire and enjoy life, leaving the work and chance to grow wealth to the next generation.

we find it hard to get the good covers and dont know the date of birth to work it out fully so just go total weight at weaning by the number of days I know it's not totally right but if the same each year its a rough benchmark
most years in the high 200 grams day over all
think for us later in season the wheels fall off grass feed value falls off and ewes taking best of the feed noticed last year feeding out nuts in dec the ewes picked up where in past ewes mostly semi dried off

with splitting groups based on types the biggest thing we noticed was lambing % between the groups up to 20 % diffrence in tailing in the yards. out of scanned twin ewes so some breeds higher losses from scanning to tailing

growth rates on avg of lambs about the same per lamb per ewe would be diffrent as diffrence in %

weaned growths start to show some diffrence in avg of breeds but a huge range in growths with in breeds /crosses that effect dose tend to show up all way along. run some 2tooth across scales other day one at 49 kg and one at 75 kg all on same feed etc but the 75 kg one better all the way along

 

[Global ovine]

Data produced by farmers, at least those relating to their own farms, isn't worth a jot. That is why it is essential in any research work involving livestock, the data are collected by trained recorders.

There is little possibility that Romney ewes, regardless of the tup they are mated to, will produce twin lambs which grow at an average of 300gms daily from birth to (say) 42kg liveweight.

Such an average growth rate won't even be achieved by ewes on clean grass which is kept in a vegetative and fertile state and with no limiting factor such as mineral deficiencies. If they were capable of such productivity, we all be tempted to keep them and ditch our own breeds and crosses.

When farmers put a lot of extra effort into livestock performance measurement over and above normal management routines and pay quite dearly to be part of large professionally run data bases, they are less likely falsify their data as it will only fool themselves. They join such schemes to better their performance. What's more, the killing sheets and other checks finds the aberrations in the data where changes outside of "normal" range exist. Same data check methodology as exist in performance recording schemes for genetics.

Twin reared lamb's growth rates of 300g/d is easily achievable off any maternal breed if spring grown pasture is of sufficient height (over 7cms) so each mouthful adds up to the required daily intake necessary. When there is less, they cannot fill each bite with enough DM and they will have to milk off their backs, which doesn't last long until milk production plummets. This has a huge effect on lamb target weights up to 6 weeks of age. After that the lambs gradually swap their intakes from milk to pasture. The sooner this happens the better as the rumen is not fully developed to handle pasture/forage only until the lamb is at least 24kgs liveweight. That means twins growing at 300g/d would be about 10 weeks of age (assuming the farmer puts effort into maintaining pasture quality over the last month of that 10 weeks), as by then the ewe's work is well and truly over.

During the 25 years of performance recording 2000 Romney ewes and 800 lambing hoggets (mated to Romney rams) my twin lambs from the ewe flock exceeded exceeded 300g/d almost all of those years. Over the 14 years of benchmarking the average weaning weight was 34.7kgs at 12 weeks (10 days from the commencement of lambing) at 168.8% of lambs weaned per ewe mated. Around three quarters of these lambs were reared as multiples. Therefore half of these lambs would have exceeded 350 g/d after subtracting birth weights.
My flock data just made the top quintile group and I learned a lot from those farmers whom headed me off regularly, irrespective of their ewe and ram breed.

 

[Henery]

When farmers put a lot of extra effort into livestock performance measurement over and above normal management routines and pay quite dearly to be part of large professionally run data bases, they are less likely falsify their data as it will only fool themselves. They join such schemes to better their performance. What's more, the killing sheets and other checks finds the aberrations in the data where changes outside of "normal" range exist. Same data check methodology as exist in performance recording schemes for genetics.

Twin reared lamb's growth rates of 300g/d is easily achievable off any maternal breed if spring grown pasture is of sufficient height (over 7cms) so each mouthful adds up to the required daily intake necessary. When there is less, they cannot fill each bite with enough DM and they will have to milk off their backs, which doesn't last long until milk production plummets. This has a huge effect on lamb target weights up to 6 weeks of age. After that the lambs gradually swap their intakes from milk to pasture. The sooner this happens the better as the rumen is not fully developed to handle pasture/forage only until the lamb is at least 24kgs liveweight. That means twins growing at 300g/d would be about 10 weeks of age (assuming the farmer puts effort into maintaining pasture quality over the last month of that 10 weeks), as by then the ewe's work is well and truly over.

During the 25 years of performance recording 2000 Romney ewes and 800 lambing hoggets (mated to Romney rams) my twin lambs from the ewe flock exceeded exceeded 300g/d almost all of those years. Over the 14 years of benchmarking the average weaning weight was 34.7kgs at 12 weeks (10 days from the commencement of lambing) at 168.8% of lambs weaned per ewe mated. Around three quarters of these lambs were reared as multiples. Therefore half of these lambs would have exceeded 350 g/d after subtracting birth weights.
My flock data just made the top quintile group and I learned a lot from those farmers whom headed me off regularly, irrespective of their ewe and ram breed.

How did you manage triplets and quads....and how do they fit into your stats ?

 

[Jimdog1]

Ours would be happy with 7mm of grass at the moment.

 

[egbert]

When farmers put a lot of extra effort into livestock performance measurement over and above normal management routines and pay quite dearly to be part of large professionally run data bases, they are less likely falsify their data as it will only fool themselves. They join such schemes to better their performance. What's more, the killing sheets and other checks finds the aberrations in the data where changes outside of "normal" range exist. Same data check methodology as exist in performance recording schemes for genetics.

Twin reared lamb's growth rates of 300g/d is easily achievable off any maternal breed if spring grown pasture is of sufficient height (over 7cms) so each mouthful adds up to the required daily intake necessary. When there is less, they cannot fill each bite with enough DM and they will have to milk off their backs, which doesn't last long until milk production plummets. This has a huge effect on lamb target weights up to 6 weeks of age. After that the lambs gradually swap their intakes from milk to pasture. The sooner this happens the better as the rumen is not fully developed to handle pasture/forage only until the lamb is at least 24kgs liveweight. That means twins growing at 300g/d would be about 10 weeks of age (assuming the farmer puts effort into maintaining pasture quality over the last month of that 10 weeks), as by then the ewe's work is well and truly over.

During the 25 years of performance recording 2000 Romney ewes and 800 lambing hoggets (mated to Romney rams) my twin lambs from the ewe flock exceeded exceeded 300g/d almost all of those years. Over the 14 years of benchmarking the average weaning weight was 34.7kgs at 12 weeks (10 days from the commencement of lambing) at 168.8% of lambs weaned per ewe mated. Around three quarters of these lambs were reared as multiples. Therefore half of these lambs would have exceeded 350 g/d after subtracting birth weights.
My flock data just made the top quintile group and I learned a lot from those farmers whom headed me off regularly, irrespective of their ewe and ram breed.

That's fantastic.
My problem is that right now, i haven't got 7cm of vegetation anywhere - well, other than dead trash on the rough.
I'm some weeks from such a surplus.

My selection criteria based on what can persist when the going gets difficult.
I've found that growing like the clappers when it's all milk and honey isn't much of a trick.

 

[egbert]

Ours would be happy with 7mm of grass at the moment.

In-bye scalped to the floor here, starting to turn ewes out onto the hill to pick at a sparse 20mm of growth.
Cows bawling at me, and overcoat to go see em.

 

[Hilly]

The Romney will
Keep going long after others have given up that’s for sure .

 

[egbert]

The Romney will
Keep going long after others have given up that’s for sure .

got nothin against em mate, but I'm constantly surprised hill country isn't covered in them, given the claims.

I've seen a lot of people try a lot of breeds and clever ideas.
And I have noticed that those who stay in business (on the hill), and find themselves able to expand/buy land/put money away, seldom run anything than SBF/Swale/Welsh/herdwick.
Oh we all d**k about with oddments around the inbye, where it's easier, and can winter anything if it comes down for the dark months...but living out on the rough?

I'm not clever enough to outwit all those men of old.

 

[Global ovine]

How did you manage triplets and quads....and how do they fit into your stats ?

Quads were very rare. Ewes scanned with triplets represented between 14.5 and 19% of the flock which averaged 209% over the 21 years of scanning until 2008 when most of the flock was sold. Most of these were in the 5yr and older ewes which averaged 220% scanning. Like all of NZ, lambing was outside, set stocked on half cycle groups sorted on mating crayon colours with ewes grouped in singles (visited for tagging once a day), twins (visited twice a day for tagging at about 75% of the stocking rate of singles, and triplets (visited twice a day for tagging and stocked at 50% of the singles). This varied a bit according to age of pasture and exposure being steep to rolling hills. The steepest hills ran the singles as too many twin lambs slip away from the birth site prior to bonding during wet weather.
Triplets were only split off if I had a spare udder, or a starving lamb was noticed.
At about a month of age, each paddock was mobbed up to start a rotation of 6 paddocks, irrespective of litter size to control pasture quality.
About 60% of ewes made a good job of triplets, with many having a life time lambing record of triplets most years. I recall one year counting 12 ewes that had exceeded 10 years of age and had reared over 90% of their scanned lambs since mated as ewe lambs.......I prized my "grand matriarchs" being a ram producer.
Performance recording soon identified the ewes with poor maternal index (lower survival and/or low weaning weights) for culling.
I tagged around 4000 lambs a year with the recording help of my wife, so not much time to frig about with wasters.

Much as I admire the Romney breed and the genetic development that occurred and is ongoing still, if I had my life over again I would be farming the modern Composites, as their hogget year performance is superior and their ability to rear multiples a step up from today's Romneys.

 

[Agrivator]

When farmers put a lot of extra effort into livestock performance measurement over and above normal management routines and pay quite dearly to be part of large professionally run data bases, they are less likely falsify their data as it will only fool themselves. They join such schemes to better their performance. What's more, the killing sheets and other checks finds the aberrations in the data where changes outside of "normal" range exist. Same data check methodology as exist in performance recording schemes for genetics.

Twin reared lamb's growth rates of 300g/d is easily achievable off any maternal breed if spring grown pasture is of sufficient height (over 7cms) so each mouthful adds up to the required daily intake necessary. When there is less, they cannot fill each bite with enough DM and they will have to milk off their backs, which doesn't last long until milk production plummets. This has a huge effect on lamb target weights up to 6 weeks of age. After that the lambs gradually swap their intakes from milk to pasture. The sooner this happens the better as the rumen is not fully developed to handle pasture/forage only until the lamb is at least 24kgs liveweight. That means twins growing at 300g/d would be about 10 weeks of age (assuming the farmer puts effort into maintaining pasture quality over the last month of that 10 weeks), as by then the ewe's work is well and truly over.

During the 25 years of performance recording 2000 Romney ewes and 800 lambing hoggets (mated to Romney rams) my twin lambs from the ewe flock exceeded exceeded 300g/d almost all of those years. Over the 14 years of benchmarking the average weaning weight was 34.7kgs at 12 weeks (10 days from the commencement of lambing) at 168.8% of lambs weaned per ewe mated. Around three quarters of these lambs were reared as multiples. Therefore half of these lambs would have exceeded 350 g/d after subtracting birth weights.
My flock data just made the top quintile group and I learned a lot from those farmers whom headed me off regularly, irrespective of their ewe and ram breed.

You will be familiar with the world renowned ''Clean Grazing System'' developed and demonstrated by SAC on there research farm near Edinburgh. Of course you will, otherwise you would call yourself Parochial Ovine rather than Global Ovine.

The demonstration over 5 successive years was visited by hundreds of farmers and advisers, including a large number from New Zealand. The results were widely reported in scientific and advisory publications and endless talks and TV coverage.

The trial involved Scotch Halfbred ewes mated to Suffolk rams, lambing in mid March to early April,and grazed on clean grass at 7 ewes/acre (17.5 ewes/ha).

Over five successive years, (and with lambs reared of 1.66/ewe) average daily gains to 77 days were 328gms, and overall gains to sale at 137 days were 271.6gms/day.

These were for a mixture of singles and twins, so the single lambs would have had a significant higher gain and twin lambs (obviously) would have had lower gains.

I will attempt to scan a page from an International conference organised by Will Haresign at the Nottingham Easter School which shows how the results were maintained over five years with variable rainfall.

You might regard the results as outdated, but the sheep involved were very similar to those today, and considering the difference in size and merit a of Scotch Halfbred ewes and Suffolk rams, then and now, there is no possibility that Romney lambs or Romney crossbred lambs could match that performance.

If you still claim that Romney twins can regularly achieve 300gms dail gains to 40Kg?, can you provide documented peer-reviewed evidence, If not, and in the immortal words of Mark Twain: ''whilst I grant your honesty I question your arithmetic''.

 

[Agrivator]

 

[Sheepfog]

When farmers put a lot of extra effort into livestock performance measurement over and above normal management routines and pay quite dearly to be part of large professionally run data bases, they are less likely falsify their data as it will only fool themselves. They join such schemes to better their performance. What's more, the killing sheets and other checks finds the aberrations in the data where changes outside of "normal" range exist. Same data check methodology as exist in performance recording schemes for genetics.

Twin reared lamb's growth rates of 300g/d is easily achievable off any maternal breed if spring grown pasture is of sufficient height (over 7cms) so each mouthful adds up to the required daily intake necessary. When there is less, they cannot fill each bite with enough DM and they will have to milk off their backs, which doesn't last long until milk production plummets. This has a huge effect on lamb target weights up to 6 weeks of age. After that the lambs gradually swap their intakes from milk to pasture. The sooner this happens the better as the rumen is not fully developed to handle pasture/forage only until the lamb is at least 24kgs liveweight. That means twins growing at 300g/d would be about 10 weeks of age (assuming the farmer puts effort into maintaining pasture quality over the last month of that 10 weeks), as by then the ewe's work is well and truly over.

During the 25 years of performance recording 2000 Romney ewes and 800 lambing hoggets (mated to Romney rams) my twin lambs from the ewe flock exceeded exceeded 300g/d almost all of those years. Over the 14 years of benchmarking the average weaning weight was 34.7kgs at 12 weeks (10 days from the commencement of lambing) at 168.8% of lambs weaned per ewe mated. Around three quarters of these lambs were reared as multiples. Therefore half of these lambs would have exceeded 350 g/d after subtracting birth weights.
My flock data just made the top quintile group and I learned a lot from those farmers whom headed me off regularly, irrespective of their ewe and ram breed.

When you say more than 7cm of grass height are you talking about set stocking or rotational grazing?

I presume you mean rotational grazing, if so what were the target entry and exit sward heights? As most grazing guides state an exit sward height of 4-6 cm which would surely compromise intake? Particularly on the last day of each cell? Or is a leader follower system advised so lower priority stock are used to hit the target residual?

 

[Hilly]

got nothin against em mate, but I'm constantly surprised hill country isn't covered in them, given the claims.

I've seen a lot of people try a lot of breeds and clever ideas.
And I have noticed that those who stay in business (on the hill), and find themselves able to expand/buy land/put money away, seldom run anything than SBF/Swale/Welsh/herdwick.
Oh we all willy about with oddments around the inbye, where it's easier, and can winter anything if it comes down for the dark months...but living out on the rough?

I'm not clever enough to outwit all those men of old.

They are just traditionalists, their profits are mainly subsidy based and depend on weather they are owned or rented will be the truth of the matter. Tradition is peer pressure from dead people , always been one to move with the times myself .

 

[JD-Kid]

You will be familiar with the world renowned ''Clean Grazing System'' developed and demonstrated by SAC on there research farm near Edinburgh. Of course you will, otherwise you would call yourself Parochial Ovine rather than Global Ovine.

The demonstration over 5 successive years was visited by hundreds of farmers and advisers, including a large number from New Zealand. The results were widely reported in scientific and advisory publications and endless talks and TV coverage.

The trial involved Scotch Halfbred ewes mated to Suffolk rams, lambing in mid March to early April,and grazed on clean grass at 7 ewes/acre (17.5 ewes/ha).

Over five successive years, (and with lambs reared of 1.66/ewe) average daily gains to 77 days were 328gms, and overall gains to sale at 137 days were 271.6gms/day.

These were for a mixture of singles and twins, so the single lambs would have had a significant higher gain and twin lambs (obviously) would have had lower gains.

I will attempt to scan a page from an International conference organised by Will Haresign at the Nottingham Easter School which shows how the results were maintained over five years with variable rainfall.

You might regard the results as outdated, but the sheep involved were very similar to those today, and considering the difference in size and merit a of Scotch Halfbred ewes and Suffolk rams, then and now, there is no possibility that Romney lambs or Romney crossbred lambs could match that performance.

If you still claim that Romney twins can regularly achieve 300gms dail gains to 40Kg?, can you provide documented peer-reviewed evidence, If not, and in the immortal words of Mark Twain: ''whilst I grant your honesty I question your arithmetic''.

what are they doing now in 2021 must be some huge gains since 1977