Roundup/generic and 2,4D??

[steveR]

I have been less than impressed with Kyleo this Spring, cleaning up an old Stewardship OWS and Birdy mixes. Possibly it was a little dry at the time, but it was gutless against a mass of wild clover and Mugwort.

I have another 4ha of teh same to take out in a few weeks time, and wondered about 360 + 2,4-D that has been talked about here... Is it a legit mix, or an Off label only? ;-) I know someone who trialled a wee bit, and the knockdown was impressive.

 

[teslacoils]

Isn't kyleo just glypho plus 2,4d anyway?

 

[deleted user 837354]

Did you use the product on it's own or with an adjuvant?

What time of year did you use it? In very cool weather the 2,4D won't do much.

I've never had any complaints about Kyleo and I used it a fair bit.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Quite common here through the cooler months ( 24D is a bit of a no no during summer with our heat & crop choices ), on label, but obviously a different jurisdiction to yours . . .
In the below scenario, most plants were quite mature or flowering & the mix worked very well.
Can you just look up the label ?

 

[steveR]

Did you use the product on it's own or with an adjuvant?

What time of year did you use it? In very cool weather the 2,4D won't do much.

I've never had any complaints about Kyleo and I used it a fair bit.

Mid April, I was putting it down to the plants not bounding away, but we had still got a bit of moisture in the ground at the time. The top growth looked well enough! No adjuvant recommended...

The mix I referred to was I understand 4l 360 and a .75l or1l of 2,4D. I think...

Later: Similiar to the recommendation Roy posted in fact.

 

[steveR]

Isn't kyleo just glypho plus 2,4d anyway?

Yes. All down to the active ingredient levels, as ever. I thought 5l/ha would act like Thor's Hammer. It didn't!

 

[Bury the Trash]

You boys love yer chemical cocktails dont ya

 

[snarling bee]

Glypho and 24D done a good job on mare's tail in the garden.

 

[steveR]

You boys love yer chemical cocktails dont ya

Fine tuning I call it! Just that a couple of generics into the tank will often be a lot less money than a fancy name from a big brand company...

 

[steveR]

Glypho and 24D done a good job on mare's tail in the garden.

Impressive, as that takes some killing.

 

[snarling bee]

Impressive, as that takes some killing.

Probably more than a commercial dose!!

In arable the best way with mares tail is to roll it before spraying as it breaks the wax a bit.

 

[Brisel]

There's a reason Kyleo attracts a price premium. I'm not aware of any 2,4D labels with pre drilling timings on the label therefore would not be legal.

Let's take Depitox as an example of a popular 2,4D straight.

Your stewardship crops aren't on the label therefore there's no approval. Kyleo, on the other hand;

Perhaps using Depitox was wrong - both are made by Nufarm, but Headland Staff has a similar label. You'd think that if Kyleo was priced too high Headland FMC would do the work to extend the Staff label to undercut the Kyleo in the market. But they haven't.

For what it's worth Shark (carfentrazone) + glyphosate isn't any cheaper than Kyleo but it will burn down broad leafed plants well though has a 1 month drilling window. I tried this for cover crop destruction as glyphosate worked too slowly in Jan/Feb but it was no better than Kyleo used then.

 

[deleted user 837354]

That sharpen herbicide is used a lot in the USA from memory, often as a burn down in tank mix with other products as Roy describes.

They have some terrible weed issues in these kinds of places. Canadian thistle being a big one IIRC.

There is not a massive dose of 2,4D in kyleo and that is for a good reason- residues affecting later crops. I haven't had any issues with it, the speed of kill is impressive. Always use an adjuvant with any roundup product now since they were reformulated.

 

[steveR]

That sharpen herbicide is used a lot in the USA from memory, often as a burn down in tank mix with other products as Roy describes.

They have some terrible weed issues in these kinds of places. Canadian thistle being a big one IIRC.

There is not a massive dose of 2,4D in kyleo and that is for a good reason- residues affecting later crops. I haven't had any issues with it, the speed of kill is impressive. Always use an adjuvant with any roundup product now since they were reformulated.

I wondered if 2,4D would be hanging around for a while. Would a disc Cultivation remove the problem of residues?

I am beginning to wonder if something like a full whack MCPA/2,4D would do job on Mugwort and thistle? Disc 2-3 weeks later, then Roundup the stale seedbed before drilling... Think I might get the agronomist in on this one

 

[teslacoils]

Yeah, it's all a labelling ripoff.

 

[Brisel]

What is wrong with a high rate of straight glyphosate? You can add adjuvants far more cheaply vs switching to Kyleo, especially if you're battling waxy leaves e.g. willowherb or cranesbill. Nettles would be the obvious exception - I've tried superwetters but this was a waste of time. The 2,4D brought much more to the party on certain weeds.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I wondered if 2,4D would be hanging around for a while. Would a disc Cultivation remove the problem of residues?

I am beginning to wonder if something like a full whack MCPA/2,4D would do job on Mugwort and thistle? Disc 2-3 weeks later, then Roundup the stale seedbed before drilling... Think I might get the agronomist in on this one

The trouble is, I don't know for sure and the manufacturer doesn't also- anything off-label is on your own back.

I've known people mix round up with all sorts but I would still advise to put LI700 or the like in first.

 

[steveR]

What is wrong with a high rate of straight glyphosate? You can add adjuvants far more cheaply vs switching to Kyleo, especially if you're battling waxy leaves e.g. willowherb or cranesbill. Nettles would be the obvious exception - I've tried superwetters but this was a waste of time. The 2,4D brought much more to the party on certain weeds.

Walked it today... If I say it is called the "Sand Field" that gives you some idea of the amount of decent topsoil... ie not much! Where I DD some of the field this time, I can see loads of litter on top (post Kyleo), all starting the process of getting intpo teh top few inches...

Mugwood/Mugwort and Clover are the biggies, some boar thistle will escape my spot treatments, then mostly annuals. I would love to DD it with Bird and Bee mix and have a stale seedbed from the Glysophate application, 3-4 weeks beforehand. Lots of shelter then from pigeons and the like. If I disc, I will need to wait for enough rain to get a stale seedbed, then spray again

I think I will probably go mega rate of straight G and ask about a suitable adjuvant. I remain slightly twitchy, that some of the seed failures I had on some very light land this Spring could have been down to the 2,4D content, in what I will admit , were Saharan like conditions post drilling!

 

[deleted user 837354]

I would not expect the 2,4D in kyleo to make much difference on clover. Thistles really don't like it. Nettles hate it and brassica type weeds fold up fast from it. If I had any criticism of kyleo it is the cost of it when using high doses.

CMPP is the kiddie on clover.

 

[Will 1594]

Ollie , I sprayed under post and rail fence , round garden about 6 weeks ago ,
Wife grew on about 70 sunflowers with intention of putting one in front of every post , which she did last week , the bit I sprayed , sunflowers are slowly dieing about 3 rd of fence was done and they about gone
Wonder what mcpa 24d. Starane mix has for residual time ,
And neighbour had a mint problem in a patch , so it had 100 ltr n27 and 24d glyphosate No mint now