Rumenco, Harper Adams, and the filthy lucre.

[Humble Village Farmer]

Two slides re soya. Never forget these:

View attachment 1123898

View attachment 1123899

Then there is the in the room that is the primary reason deforestation is taking place in the first place is logging profits. No one ever talks about that....

George is right in principle, soy is the big driver and most of it goes to feed pigs and poultry.

If trees were the main profit source, they would allow reforestation in a cut and come again rotation.

From what he is saying, the cattle are used to graze down any regrowth.

 

[DaveGrohl]

George is right in principle, soy is the big driver and most of it goes to feed pigs and poultry.

If trees were the main profit source, they would allow reforestation in a cut and come again rotation.

From what he is saying, the cattle are used to graze down any regrowth.

Trees regrowing is a generational thing though, profits need to be had on an annual cycle. Also you know fine well how "most of it" has been abused by slippery people as an argument. Monbiot is about as slippery as they come.

The soya discussion has been done to death, and still the idea prevails that cattle are behind it, which you’ve just agreed isn’t true. More soya goes into soya milk than cattle feed. You are correct about pigs and poultry but that is primarily because we’ve moved as far away from traditional systems as it’s possible to get. We need to return to mixed farming.

 

[soapsud]

Someone point me to an easy to read piece on rumen microbes emiisions.
I'm guessing that one set of the bugs emit methane because they are anerobic? There must be others that produce oxygen for the first one's to breathe?

 

[matthew]

Harper Adams doing research, paid for by a private business? I don't see the cause for complaint. Surely that is what you expect academic institutions to do?

Researchers used to be paid a (handsome) salary by their institutions but that changed when big industry / governments funded such research to reach conclusions politically or economically desirable.

Such paid for research is now the bedrock of universities.

IIRC, the use of seaweed as a fertiliser was outlawed here (eg Cornish Calcified Seaweed) 'cos eco-activists said it was wrecking the ocean's ecosystem.

Suddenly it's OK to start harvesting it again then

Nah. We'll just harvest someone else's imported seaweed.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Trees regrowing is a generational thing though, profits need to be had on an annual cycle. Also you know fine well how "most of it" has been abused by slippery people as an argument. Monbiot is about as slippery as they come.

The soya discussion has been done to death, and still the idea prevails that cattle are behind it, which you’ve just agreed isn’t true. More soya goes into soya milk than cattle feed. You are correct about pigs and poultry but that is primarily because we’ve moved as far away from traditional systems as it’s possible to get. We need to return to mixed farming.

Not disagreeing with any of that and of course we should return to mixed farming. Unfortunately the corporate food system thrives on scale and monoculture so it's an uphill battle, though not impossible.

There's a tendancy among some to disagree with the likes of Packham and Monbiot regardless of what they actually say, when some of what they say is right

 

[john 650]

Someone point me to an easy to read piece on rumen microbes emiisions.
I'm guessing that one set of the bugs emit methane because they are anerobic? There must be others that produce oxygen for the first one's to breathe?

No. The less oxygen in a rumen, the better.

This is probably as straight forward a sheet as you'll find-

https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/50901500/px-based_v3.2/educ-matrls/pdfs/fs_rumen-microbes.pdf

 

[neilo]

so farmers grazing cattle on a pasture based system which do not feed anything at present, at grass would have to offer a block for the (cattle) badgers to lick to then affect their herds with TB , great thats well thought out,

Rumenco will sell you a ‘badger proof’ feeder to put the blocks in…

 

[matthew]

Rumenco will sell you a ‘badger proof’ feeder to put the blocks in…

Aaarh, but did they consult a badger first?

Filming carried out by Professor Tim Roper in research released in 2001, showed badgers feeding from cattle troughs set at 130 cm, which is 4'3" off the ground, a height which as Defra were helpful to point out in answers to our Parliamentary Questions, is too high for cattle (or camelids) to access
130 cm or 4' 3" was the final tally.
And no, they didn't stand on each others' shoulders.
They jumped, claws extended then swung their arrises into the trough.

And at 4'3" - that is too high for most cattle to eat comfortably - unless we are going to x them with giraffes.

The badger proof mineral holders which I have seen, have a two part construction whoich would give purchase to claws 3/4 way up. And when badgers can raid household dustbins with ease, they aren't high enough anyway.

 

[thesilentone]

Jobs for the boys.

It's not rocket science, if you place organic material in a warm, semi-liquid environment, bacteria grows and flourishes. One of the bi-products is gas (excuse me, I just had to pass wind and belch)

Dependent on the temp and ph in that environment depends on which family of bacteria prospers. Gaining a advantage on this 'topical' subject will no doubt attract a few industry awards, and maybe a bit of extra revenue, however being sustainable means exactly that. The key is long-term sustainability, in other words, if a solution is found, then it must be followed by the letter or it reverts to type.

 

[steveR]

The fact that Tim Rycroft (AHDB Chief Exec) has just announced he's leaving ..

Another stop on the Gravy train is awaiting....?? I wonder where Mr Rycroft will turn up.

 

[steveR]

Aaarh, but did they consult a badger first?

Filming carried out by Professor Tim Roper in research released in 2001, showed badgers feeding from cattle troughs set at 130 cm, which is 4'3" off the ground, a height which as Defra were helpful to point out in answers to our Parliamentary Questions, is too high for cattle (or camelids) to access
130 cm or 4' 3" was the final tally.
And no, they didn't stand on each others' shoulders.
They jumped, claws extended then swung their arrises into the trough.

And at 4'3" - that is too high for most cattle to eat comfortably - unless we are going to x them with giraffes.

The badger proof mineral holders which I have seen, have a two part construction whoich would give purchase to claws 3/4 way up. And when badgers can raid household dustbins with ease, they aren't high enough anyway.

I bought one of the much vaunted mineral bucket holders as part of a grant application. Complete waste of money for anything other than a lanky Holstein. I don't think more than one or two of the sucklers here could reach....

 

[john 650]

On the badger front, have seen this done in a few places. Cheap and simple. Is it completely badger proof- don't know- but I'd wager it will be.
Just an old drum, and some ballast in the bottom to stop it falling over.
It's certainly better than water troughs, feed troughs, or even the grass that badgers will be walking/defecating on.

 

[neilo]

View attachment 1123932

On the badger front, have seen this done in a few places. Cheap and simple. Is it completely badger proof- don't know- but I'd wager it will be.
Just an old drum, and some ballast in the bottom to stop it falling over.
It's certainly better than water troughs, feed troughs, or even the grass that badgers will be walking/defecating on.

We used to cut the top out of plastic 45 gallon drums and 2/3 full with concrete.

Not to try to stop badgers, but to stop cows sh*tting or standing in it when giving salt blocks, buckets, etc.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I wonder what is going to happen here. Can AHDB scrap all their infographics based on GWP100? Or are their hands tied?

I can see the theoretical benefits of AHDB to our industry, but if they're tied to incorrect government rhetoric, then we're paying levy to an organisation which is working against us.


Let's hope the good work done by some BFU members is sinking in at AHDB. It's like turning a supertanker.

If what Jackov Altraids says is correct, then AHDB aren't solely working for the levy payer. Seems they might use some of the levy to implement government policy.

We've got to question if we want to continue paying levy to an organisation bound by such obligations. I'm not sure we do (want to).

Maybe we should push for AHDB to get this obligation changed, or they're no use to us. Over last few years, on this issue of methane and GHG emissions, AHDB seem to have been laying the blame on levy payers. It's been nice and convenient to blame farmers (and get them to change) so everyone else can keep flying to the Med for their hollibobs.

I'm still trying to find the text defining the remits of levy boards but this is in the governance document for AHDB;

This rather stymies AHDB in trying to influence parliament while being supposedly it's official point of advice.

 

[PostHarvest]

Ref the Russian experiments on methane production from sheep, the Feed Evaluation Unit at Drayton EHF outside Stratford upon Avon was doing exactly the same research at about the same time, maybe earlier. The local MF tractor dealership (Western Farm Implements) built some airtight boxes that each housed one sheep. The crates were mounted on load cells and the air flow in and out was analysed. The aim was to measure which feeds were digested more efficiently, i.e. less methane and more weight gain. So there is nothing new about the research being carried out at Harper

 

[matthew]

View attachment 1123932

On the badger front, have seen this done in a few places. Cheap and simple. Is it completely badger proof- don't know- but I'd wager it will be.
Just an old drum, and some ballast in the bottom to stop it falling over.
It's certainly better than water troughs, feed troughs, or even the grass that badgers will be walking/defecating on.

Love the Keep Out badger sign.

Ref the Russian experiments on methane production from sheep, the Feed Evaluation Unit at Drayton EHF outside Stratford upon Avon was doing exactly the same research at about the same time, maybe earlier. The local MF tractor dealership (Western Farm Implements) built some airtight boxes that each housed one sheep. The crates were mounted on load cells and the air flow in and out was analysed. The aim was to measure which feeds were digested more efficiently, i.e. less methane and more weight gain. So there is nothing new about the research being carried out at Harper

what’s new at Harper / Rumenco is the manipulation or even zapping of rumen bugs: a solution looking for a cause.

 

[delilah]

what’s new at Harper / Rumenco is the manipulation or even zapping of rumen bugs: a solution looking for a cause.

Yes, but beyond that what's new is the idea that this wont be a choice for individual producers to take or leave but a statutory requirement. To solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

I'm still trying to find the text defining the remits of levy boards but this is in the governance document for AHDB;

View attachment 1123954

This rather stymies AHDB in trying to influence parliament while being supposedly it's official point of advice.

Doesn’t that effectively make the AHDB “Unfit for Purpose” in the sense that virtually all of us (compulsory) levy payers would like the AHDB to stand up for our interests; to ‘speak truth unto power’ but they aren’t allowed to be anything but yes-men.
Don’t we need to move our levy away from this arrangement and either have a compulsory or voluntarily funded organisation that will advocate for the livestock industry?

 

[thorpe]

Bollox to them. Tell rumenco to do one, putting profit before the industry they suposedly support.
Plenty of better feed firms out there anyhow

cattle here doing a lot better after dropping rumenco beef con, gone back to george's stuff (GLW)

 

[thorpe]

Jobs for the boys.

It's not rocket science, if you place organic material in a warm, semi-liquid environment, bacteria grows and flourishes. One of the bi-products is gas (excuse me, I just had to pass wind and belch)

Dependent on the temp and ph in that environment depends on which family of bacteria prospers. Gaining a advantage on this 'topical' subject will no doubt attract a few industry awards, and maybe a bit of extra revenue, however being sustainable means exactly that. The key is long-term sustainability, in other words, if a solution is found, then it must be followed by the letter or it reverts to type.

don't set me off on award's, i fecking hate em sport music the lot farming are the worst of all oh i do feel better for that