Sam3 adding herbal to existing grass

[Homesy]

There are ways to do it that will work
If you just drill into an old ley and expect it to grow it won't,
Overeeding mixes are not that expensive
We've been doing trails here for years on overseeding , I know exactly why it fails
This was overseeded into an old sward late last summer , the grass was just starting to grow back , a few weeks later we turned a few lambs on it
View attachment 1157352

Spill the beans then tell us exactly what we need to do.
I have a direct drill (Simtech) so direct drilling is what I want to do.

 

[e3120]

If it's gone woody though, as in your earlier post, then wouldn't it be flowering and seeding as well?

I've seen flowers, but never seeds. It all happens pretty quickly. Maybe there are seeds but not seedlings. I wouldn't fancy their chances on hard clay amongst well-fed ryegrass.

 

[serf]

Can low input grass be upgraded to herbal before 3 years are up ?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Spill the beans then tell us exactly what we need to do.
I have a direct drill (Simtech) so direct drilling is what I want to do.

You got a good drill so step I'm the right direction, but you need to re read over this topic a pay particular attention to those who mention a sniff of Roundup when overseeding , that's the only thing that will give you a reliable result ,

 

[Blue charm]

Best way is as a few have said a stiff of Roundup ,or do if after a realy heavy cut of silage ,how you put the seed on is pretty irrelevant, a Wagtail and Chain harrow would do it with a few passes ,the importance is controlling the Regrowth of the old grass

Hi, how much glyphosate are we talking?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Hi, how much glyphosate are we talking?

No more than half pint acre ,

 

[Blue charm]

Thanks Derrick

 

[aangus]

I was watching Harry’s Farm and he is going down the path of Sfi 60% of the farm out of production for at least 3 years. Maybe not this Government but I can see changes to these policies in the future.

 

[som farmer]

I was watching Harry’s Farm and he is going down the path of Sfi 60% of the farm out of production for at least 3 years. Maybe not this Government but I can see changes to these policies in the future.

l think the guv, this or next, will run short of money, and we will be an easy political prey, to deduct from the budget.

l also think food security is going to become more important, the trade routes food takes to import it, are becoming increasingly risky. 10% of global trade goes through Suez, the panama canal is also 'dodgy', both in potential full on war zones.

Add China, and a few more hot spots, onto Russia/Ukraine, and you have a seriously dangerous globe, with several European countries going on full scale rearmament, preparing for war v Russia.

As the 'old' farmers used to say, needs a war to get farming appreciated and profitable again, like the profit, not the war.

 

[sheepdogtrail]

Having to choose less productive grasses to give the herbs a chance is a slippery slope.

If this was an arable option those boys would say that the seed labels and picture of the drill would be enough evidence that you had made an honest attempt to meet the aims, even if by year 3 all that was left was grass/clover/plantain (as it appears to have weed-like characteristics)

Chicory establishes readily, but if it is allowed to go woody, that seems to be the end of it. Best suited to intensive grazing in my experience.

That shouldn't be too much of a problem as chicory reseeds itself in tha situation.

I agree. Chicory reseeds itself no problem. I have 13 year old stands of chicory that are in a non human or livestock managed environment. The self seeding is managed by bumble bees as they are the pollinators of chicory. Plants get 6 feet tall every summer.

The tap root is prone to rot in heavy soils that stay saturated throughout the winter. In light soils where water can percolate below the tap root most modern cultivars of Chicory will persist for 6+ years in a managed livestock application.

 

[Homesy]

No more than half pint acre ,

so around 700mls per hectare. What's the best time of year to do it ?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

so around 700mls per hectare. What's the best time of year to do it ?

Anytime between mid April and September when we get a few weeks rain after sowing lol

I would either go mid April or early Setemtember after a silage cut , you still need to remove as much grass as you can , and give it a good scratch with a harrow if you have one
But also depends where you are , Dry East or Wetter West of the country
Where we are you can sow more or less anytime after the end of March
8 fld Oz and watch on the overlap , much more and you will kill the grass,

 

[neilo]

so around 700mls per hectare. What's the best time of year to do it ?

@Global ovine has mentioned this practice in NZ. Iirc the rates had talked about were nearer 100ml/ha.

I suspect 700ml/ha would kill a lot of the ryegrass out, unless it was in non-conditioned hard water that locked it up.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

5 oz rate will only last 30 days that's not long enough ,
The rate is from 0.3 to 0.4 of a pint
6 to 8 us fl oz acre
560 ml ha

 

[Derrick Hughes]

With and without spray , grassy one is done with a disc drill herbs and clover , it did Germinate ,then rapidly disappeared as the grass grew back from mowing

 

[d-wales]

If you enter into this scheme, do you get paid the same amount every year , or is it a one off payment?
Also if you have your own grass drill/ fert spinner how do you show that the sowing has been done?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

If you enter into this scheme, do you get paid the same amount every year , or is it a one off payment?
Also if you have your own grass drill/ fert spinner how do you show that the sowing has been done?

If its the same as the Welsh one you have to take pictures of the work in progress
The Welsh one you also need to keep every seed ticket off the bags ,I've had a few contacts me for replacement tickets as they lost them

 

[d-wales]

If its the same as the Welsh one you have to take pictures of the work in progress
The Welsh one you also need to keep every seed ticket off the bags ,I've had a few contacts me for replacement tickets as they lost them

Thanks.

Also I'm guessing it's a one off payment?

 

[Ted M]

Thanks.

Also I'm guessing it's a one off payment?

From what I've been told it's £382/ha per year for the 3 year length of the agreement and it's paid quarterly allegedly

 

[L P]

l think time will answer most questions, its all a bit 'new'.

sam3 is very 'lean' on the rules, apart from the seed mix, and a 5 week break, there doesn't appear to be many.

more relevant, is what do you want from the ley, other than the grant ? If, if, a lot of the claims are correct, and that's a big if, potentially there are huge benefits from them, produce enough N from clover, to negate the need to apply any, health benefits as wormers, or just the varied diet, minerals are brought up from 'deeper' is true, roots go down deeper than prg/clover. Definitely grow for longer, in a drought.

so either grow for the money, or grow to utilise.

sam3 is very 'lean' on the rules, apart from the seed mix, and a 5 week break, there doesn't appear to be many.

This is a guide, not a rule.