Sanfoin

[Matthew Britton]

Soooo, I have moved to sunny central France to run a beef farm. Most of the farm is great, a bit rough under foot here and tnefebut great really. I have a 7 hectare field called vignoble ( vineyard) it’s on a brow, quite stony and very dry, to the point most grass dies after a fortnight of nice sunny weather. I would like to make it productive. Grass mixtures area bit of a dead loss due to the climate. I was thinking having read quite a bit about it that sanfoin might be a realistic proposition. The ph is ok. Have any of you tried it with cocks foot or Timothy? What ar3 your opinions?

 

[HarryB97]

Lucerne would definitley be worth a look as well.

 

[Matthew Britton]

Lucerne would definitley be worth a look as well.

Yes I have grown it in the uk and love it, however sanfoin is supposed to be more tolerant to drought and cold I believe.

 

[Barleycorn]

Henry Edmonds of Cholderton Estate near Andover is the country's guru on Sanfoin, grown it for years, his father before him. Bit of a specialist crop, you only get one cut, as advised I would look at lucerne too, although most of our lucerne seems to have been killed by the recent wet weather.

 

[Matthew Britton]

Henry Edmonds of Cholderton Estate near Andover is the country's guru on Sanfoin, grown it for years, his father before him. Bit of a specialist crop, you only get one cut, as advised I would look at lucerne too, although most of our lucerne seems to have been killed by the recent wet weather.

Did he do a write up for cotswold seeds? The benefit of it as I can see is that you can graze it without any bloat riskafter you have mowed it. But I will look at Lucerne again too. It was an amazing crop on the organic uk farm.

 

[Hesstondriver]

This may seem a flippant reply , but it must be called vinyard field for a reason ? Probably because our forefathers tried other crops and realised that it was best suited to vines . Would that be a option now ?

 

[Dog Bowl]

I put 50 acres of Sanfoin in a few years ago. Added a little PRG grass in the mix to help fill the sward out and aid fermentation when silaging.

The first year it was lovely, 2 cuts and then paddock grazed it into the autumn.

The following spring I just had a field of PRG left, barely any sanfoin left.

I've found lucerne a lot more persistent and reliable.

 

[Matthew Britton]

This may seem a flippant reply , but it must be called vinyard field for a reason ? Probably because our forefathers tried other crops and realised that it was best suited to vines . Would that be a option now ?

No not a flippant answer at all. In my book quite a correct assumption. However there are first of 3 problems before I go too deeply into that. 1) I drink more than enough wine already and I can see growing our own might end up drinking the profits and becoming fully fledged alcoholics[emoji23].
2) the wine produced here is not great, and that is being polite. This wouldn’t be helped by the fact that I don’t know how to make the stuff..............although having tried some local wine it might be a blessing!
3) I understand you need a licence issued by the government to plant vines. These are apparently very hard to come by.

So I will just try and grow some cow food on it.

 

[clod hopper]

No not a flippant answer at all. In my book quite a correct assumption. However there are first of 3 problems before I go too deeply into that. 1) I drink more than enough wine already and I can see growing our own might end up drinking the profits and becoming fully fledged alcoholics

.
2) the wine produced here is not great, and that is being polite. This wouldn’t be helped by the fact that I don’t know how to make the stuff..............although having tried some local w we one it might be a blessing!
3) I understand you need a licence issued by the government to plant vines. These are apparently very hard to come by.

So I will just try and grow some cow food on it.

Throw some chicory in the mix and red clover. All that legume might keep the chicory going with N. You might find you need to reseed every 2-3yrs if it's like a dry boney old field I'm thinking of.
Maybe throw some annuals on each autumn and accept a hit in summer

 

[clod hopper]

Soooo, I have moved to sunny central France to run a beef farm. Most of the farm is great, a bit rough under foot here and tnefebut great really. I have a 7 hectare field called vignoble ( vineyard) it’s on a brow, quite stony and very dry, to the point most grass dies after a fortnight of nice sunny weather. I would like to make it productive. Grass mixtures area bit of a dead loss due to the climate. I was thinking having read quite a bit about it that sanfoin might be a realistic proposition. The ph is ok. Have any of you tried it with cocks foot or Timothy? What ar3 your opinions?

Another angle, I imagine that you will be feeding out at some stage, it will be a great area for this and build fertility up too then do your seeding.
Good luck ?

 

[Danllan]

Yes I have grown it in the uk and love it, however sanfoin is supposed to be more tolerant to drought and cold I believe.

We used to grow Lucerne in Zim, it coped pretty well when it was dry there - but it still needs some water...

 

[will l]

Put it in luzerne, You may get protein payment first year,Cut and wrap, Youll need to resow sanfoin each year it is slow to develop and is a 2 cut crop,

 

[will l]

Dont forget the innoculant if never had luzerne on the field before,

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Heavily focused on sheep but lots of stuff on sainfoin in this video from Groundswell last year.

Also Doug Avery in NZ. Again sheep focused but using lucerne amongst other things.

Loads of stuff from/ about Doug if you search further.

 

[Hesstondriver]

No not a flippant answer at all. In my book quite a correct assumption. However there are first of 3 problems before I go too deeply into that. 1) I drink more than enough wine already and I can see growing our own might end up drinking the profits and becoming fully fledged alcoholics[emoji23].
2) the wine produced here is not great, and that is being polite. This wouldn’t be helped by the fact that I don’t know how to make the stuff..............although having tried some local w we one it might be a blessing!
3) I understand you need a licence issued by the government to plant vines. These are apparently very hard to come by.

So I will just try and grow some cow food on it.

Haha I hadn’t thought of making it yourself I was thinking along the lines of selling the crop to a dealer or cooperative type thing or growing on contract. Not that I know anything about the grape trade! . it sounds like a quota by stealth on vines / wine then ?

 

[beardface]

Why not use it for bale grazing over the winter? Will self seed and if its as free draining as you say will be perfect for the job. Might save a lot on straw.

 

[Matthew Britton]

Haha I hadn’t thought of making it yourself I was thinking along the lines of selling the crop to a dealer or cooperative type thing or growing on contract. Not that I know anything about the grape trade! . it sounds like a quota by stealth on vines / wine then ?

It is a quota, no stealth about it lol ?

 

[Matthew Britton]

Why not use it for bale grazing over the winter? Will self seed and if its as free draining as you say will be perfect for the job. Might save a lot on straw.

That is what has happened in the past to a degree. It is a possibility but would rather have it producing forage as it would sit there all summer with hardly any use due to being dried out and mullered all winter. Plus the fact at the moment I have space in buildings. The other thing is when it is minus 14 and the wind is blowing I might have trouble keeping condition on the beasts!

 

[deleted user 837354]

What sort of soil is it? What are your neighbours doing, is there a local agricultural business hub (or whatever they are called in France, do they have these or did I imagine that?) you can ask?

Lucerne will persist a few years. You have to cut repeatedly.

I'm almost envious because the French have a few more chemicals in the toolbox for this.

Sainfoin I thought had to be on high pH soils?

 

[Dan@JF]

High jack..... How did you end up farming in France?