Scottish water access

[Salt'n'Pepper]

Scottish Water require access over our land to replace a sewage pipe,and will need to use a very large crane.They propose to construct a new road over our fields to gain access as the current access roads are too narrow for the crane to pass.
This new road will not be a long term asset to the fam and due to the proposed route being about 800metres they say that using a temporary mobile road would not be feasible.

Has anyone else been in this position and what sort of compensation should we expect?

The civil engineering firm tasked with the project has recommended we contact a land agent,does anyone have any good land agent recommendations?

TIA S&P

 

[Farmer_Joe]

force them a route that would be beneficial, its your land they have to follow your rules.

definitely get a good land agent to negotiate.

 

[Cocomac]

Had the same thing with open reach wanting to put poles across a field, total of 3 poles in 2 acres. Told them they could go round the edge of the field in the hedge line or not at all. So long as you give them an option that works for you, they’ll usually agree to it. Best thing you can do is not make any on the spot decisions, get advice and think about it before you do anything.

 

[Flatland guy]

Is the sewerage pipe on your land or on adjacent/neighbouring land?

 

[Salt'n'Pepper]

Is the sewerage pipe on your land or on adjacent/neighbouring land?

On our land,then over a river onto our land again.

 

[puppet]

Davidson and Robertson. Ian Austin a good man there

 

[Flatland guy]

On our land,then over a river onto our land again.

Presume they are replacing the sewerage pipe over the river, (will it be a bunded pipe).

Do you have a copy of original agreement or ask for a copy if it was installed prior to your ownership, see if any peculiar things were documented at time. I cannot understand why a temporary road is not feasible, presume they just want to tip some hardcore/stone on your land/compact then walk away.

One thing to consider if they leave/have a permanent roadway is not to underestimate the amount of people that may walk the road (general public) and your lack of privacy/ trespass etc than without the road. Unsure whether stock or arable but I cannot think that stock and general public issues are going to go away any time soon.

 

[Highland Farmer]

Just concluded a Scottish water project over our ground. We used Bidwells as land agents, knew their stuff, what needed to be in place and compensation for losses / time / remediation.

 

[Hesstondriver]

sounds like with the right land agent you'll end up with a new farm road, new bridge and some £££


neighbours had a temporary road put in by a utility company for access , all negotiated and agreed. except the utility company didn't spot the 'to erect and forever maintain' clause left in by mistake .

the road is still there 30+years later and begrudgingly they get a load of type 1 every year

 

[David1968]

On our land,then over a river onto our land again.

Literally 'over' the river? Is that what the crane's for?

Why are they not going under it with a directional boring rig?

 

[Nearly]

Literally 'over' the river? Is that what the crane's for?

Why are they not going under it with a directional boring rig?

Gravity?

 

[David1968]

Gravity?

They put raised vents either side to prevent airlocks and it works fine with a bit of head at the start, assuming they're not actually pumping it.

 

[Salt'n'Pepper]

sounds like with the right land agent you'll end up with a new farm road, new bridge and some £££


neighbours had a temporary road put in by a utility company for access , all negotiated and agreed. except the utility company didn't spot the 'to erect and forever maintain' clause left in by mistake .

the road is still there 30+years later and begrudgingly they get a load of type 1 every year

Unfortunately the road will not be of any real practical value to the farm due to the need to take a direct route which is at a tangent to our normal operations.
There also will be no bridge,due to the nature of the project.
As far as we are concerned it is an inconvenience and has potential to seriously damage fields and drains,rip up hedges and leave roads across fields that are of no real value.

 

[Salt'n'Pepper]

Literally 'over' the river? Is that what the crane's for?

Why are they not going under it with a directional boring rig?

There are two existing pipes,one ‘old steel pipe’ that runs on land and over the river and a large new concrete pipe that was laid under the river 40 years ago.
They are replacing the old ‘over river ‘section of steel pipe.

 

[Cocomac]

Unfortunately the road will not be of any real practical value to the farm due to the need to take a direct route which is at a tangent to our normal operations.
There also will be no bridge,due to the nature of the project.
As far as we are concerned it is an inconvenience and has potential to seriously damage fields and drains,rip up hedges and leave roads across fields that are of no real value.

Is there a route you could go that would give you some value? The problem with sewage is it’s classed as an essential service so the water board will come on one way or another but if you can give them an alternative that works for both parties they’re usually pretty obliging. From personal experience both water board and electric company’s couldn’t be more helpful, SSE wanted to replace poles here a couple years ago in April but were quite happy to wait to June so we could get the silage off the field first. They will also come and mark cables if you ask. Always been a case of they’ll help you if you help them. BT not so much.

 

[David1968]

There are two existing pipes,one ‘old steel pipe’ that runs on land and over the river and a large new concrete pipe that was laid under the river 40 years ago.
They are replacing the old ‘over river ‘section of steel pipe.

I'd be amazed, in this day and age, they're not making them put the new one under the river as well.

I guess they'd still need the crane to dismantle the old one though

 

[nick...]

If they are anything like national grid they will do as they please regardless what you think.only compensation is likely to be for loss of crop value.i wish you well
Nick...

 

[miniconnect]

Get a land agent, they know what these things are worth and the questions to ask. Butler land management is who we use.
Also, try to be involved yourself. find out who the main contractor is before they start and make sure your happy with them.
Get to know the site manager, call in as often as you can just to keep up with what's happening.
There will also be a deal to be done with the stone, there's big value to be had in potentially a lifetime supply of stone, they often buy the stone, then the same company will be paid to take it away again. So if you've a handy corner to move it to on completion, and maybe even put on a tractor and dump trailer to help it, everyone's a winner.

 

[nick...]

Get a land agent, they know what these things are worth and the questions to ask. Butler land management is who we use.
Also, try to be involved yourself. find out who the main contractor is before they start and make sure your happy with them.
Get to know the site manager, call in as often as you can just to keep up with what's happening.
There will also be a deal to be done with the stone, there's big value to be had in potentially a lifetime supply of stone, they often buy the stone, then the same company will be paid to take it away again. So if you've a handy corner to move it to on completion, and maybe even put on a tractor and dump trailer to help it, everyone's a winner.

With regards to the stone at least on our farm with national grid,I’m told they will put it down for haul roads and from what I worked out 5500 ton for 700 metres of road.anyway was originally told I could keep it at end of job which would be a big pile and I’m sure envoiremental agency would not like that,and since been told they will take it away ,clean and reuse and return to supplier at end of job.it will be type 1 here which is around £30 ton.
Nick...

 

[Flatland guy]

I am not sure if they are replacing only the pipe over the bridge or more of the pipe further along. However at the moment they will only be able to access via original easement/ wayleave. Yes the water company do have great powers but it will take a tremendous amount of time and cost if you play hardball with them. If the project only affects you they can go via Court worst case scenario but for a one off access very expensive, so they usually like to avoid at all cost and offer more recompense as easier option.
You have stated a direct route is their preferred option but does not benefit you whatsoever, can you alter the route so it does benefit you?
The trick is to cost out all options and make the option you want to be best value to them. I presume if they have a permanent roadway the water company are going to have a right of way for xx(e.g. 99) years. If it does make sure you cost out what it will cost you annually in various things then add a 2% figure each year for inflation and then for the number of years the easement they want, if they want it in perpetuity of forever and ever it is going to be a very large figure!!!
I am not sure how it was erected in the first place, or if you were born but if any family member can have details keep pushing for using the same method as before, now either the roads have got worse for access which is no concern for you or they want to use larger equipment than originally.
It seems like Scottish water have subbed out the replacement to a contractor so the'subby' will only want the quickest, cheapest option and be gone,effectively they will have quoted on using old access points.
800m of temporary road is an option that you must offer to them, if that is your preferred option but try to make sure this provides best value to them. If they cannot access via smaller lanes now, how can they be certain the new access will be any better in years to come Scottish Water have no powers over any public highway for maintenance etc.
As for agents trust no one but find one you can work with sometimes they only want an agent involved into sweet talking you into getting their deal over the line.
Also another point to note on major infrastructure projects I have known the utility upgrade the road e. g. Pay the highways what figure they come up with for improving the road and it is done if they want access with specialist machinery.
It will be a battle that will take time, prepare for the long haul, grind them down at their own game.( go slow, no hurry mentality) usually they work on farmers/landowners wanting it sorted out quick which helps them too.

I wish you the best of luck.