Semen thawing method

[garethpjones]

We have just finished mating with AI for our autumn block herd (this being our 3rd year in the milking job). We have used LIC to do our serving this year and last. Our technician is very experienced and I know has very good results in many other autumn and spring herd (in NZ and UK.) Although we might end up having quite a few cows and heifers calving in the first 2 months, I haven't really been happy with our results last year or this one where conception rate is concerned. Lots of cows repeating, lots of straws used. I was wondering what peoples take is on the cold water method of defrosting LIC use? Especially during the autumn where its colder? Do people use it to thaw sexed semen? Would I get better results with the warm water method?

 

[Bald Rick]

There are a lot of other factors involved in conception rates too though such as weather, forage quality, potential underlying diseases, stress such as Tb testing etc.
Having said that, we only use warm water thawing on sexed and convention both dairy and beef and run at around two straws per conception - all DIY

 

[sidjon]

We use cold water thaw and have MT rate of 4% , done on sexad straws as well, we're spring calving and used LIC to serve cows until this year and used Cogent with similar results using cold water.

 

[garethpjones]

Exactly @Bald Rick. Maybe our conception isn't as poor as I think. To be fair, we've still got all sorts of cows from all sorts of places. Hopefully no more buying cows in from now on and breeding a more fertile cows. I will be analysing this years results more than I have done before to get some figures I can compare with other farms.

@sidjon What did you do with the AI guns once loaded with straws, just take them to the cow or down your back? How many guns will you load? LIC go on about 'cold shocks' of doing the warm method, but if gun warmers are used and 'down the back' and in to the cow there shouldn't be cold shocks surely? Cold method definitly has less pitfalls I suppose and less work.

 

[sidjon]

Side pocket on leg in a glove, had to stop one of the techs this year who was sticking the guns down her front, skin, sweat and perfume all kill sperms lowering the conception rate, all the LIC techs were monitored with conception rate and sent back for retraining or sacked (not sure if cogent do this , Genus definitely don't).

 

[garethpjones]

Did all the LIC techs keep the gun warm one way or another? Ours just carries them in the open...I always assumed that was the company protocol. I don't think LIC check conception rates anymore, I never got asked for figures anyway!

 

[Grassman247]

Non return rate is what needs to be measured to see if your tech is any good or not. We DIY and are at 85%, we accept that we will lose 10% and end up at 75% to first service. Have been doing a lot of different things over the last 10 years of serving cows and all the little things have added up to make a huge difference. We block calve both autumn and spring herds. Switched from herringbone races back to Ai stalls. We use a warm water electric bath and defrost at 35 degrees for 15 seconds. We only serve one cow at a time. Not 10 straws down our backs. And probably the biggest thing of all has been placement in the cow, moving side to side in a herringbone race, people talking, the phone ringing all distractions have been removed.

Have been block calving a long time and one thing that has struck me about the kiwi’s is the “she’ll be right” attitude, if there not sure wether it’s been bulling they just serve it again, they use loads of semen and have no accurate dates for drying off as they just dry them all off at once. If you want to milk through it’s useless. Only one way to get good results and that’s attention to detail. I don’t believe half the figures I’m told

 

[som farmer]

our tech uses a proper warm water thawer, not many straws at a time, hfrs last year 75% to 1st service, 70% cows.
good picking up the bullers, we do a pnc, before service, and use oestrus strips, ai for 7/10 days, then a shot of prelim.
Diet is probably the critical factor, that and condition. Just started serving our aut block, to calve end oct/november, 20% served since wednesday, whether they hold, that's to be seen, but it's only 55 cows.

 

[upnortheast]

skin, sweat and perfume all kill sperms

If that's right it's a wonder any kids are born

 

[Fergieman]

If that's right it's a wonder any kids are born

Thats the difference between natural service and AI.

 

[garethpjones]

our tech uses a proper warm water thawer, not many straws at a time, hfrs last year 75% to 1st service, 70% cows.
good picking up the bullers, we do a pnc, before service, and use oestrus strips, ai for 7/10 days, then a shot of prelim.
Diet is probably the critical factor, that and condition. Just started serving our aut block, to calve end oct/november, 20% served since wednesday, whether they hold, that's to be seen, but it's only 55 cows.

Is that LIC? Did you ever do it with cold for comparisson I was expecting more to hold this year tbh, the diet is working better, dung better etc. Cows look well. Got to accept its only 3rd year I suppose, take a bit to get all cows settled here and stop introducing new ones.

 

[som farmer]

no, independent technician, very careful and exact, proof is in the results. In a tight calving block, conception is the vital 'ingredient' in the mix, there is no excuse for bad protocol at service, money spent then, is 'cheap'.
Interestingly, he was talking about some of the techno systems, for heat detection, he is finding more and more cows, being presented for service, not bulling, but have shown activity on the system, or cows being presented for several days, as still showing activity. Didn't realise some systems send the info back to a central point, and is only sent to farmer, if all payments up to date ! We had heat time, but had to stop using it, couldn't cope with cows bulling for 48 hrs.

 

[organicguy]

OP needs to give us some numbers to allow us to make an informed judgement.
I used to believe that cold shock would be more detrimental than cold thawing so always made sure the temperature kept rising until inside the cow.
I have been told by my vet and others that damage occurs during thawing so the more rapidly the sperm get to body temperature the better. It is then more resilient to cooling a little.
@Grassman247 is absolutely right in saying that lots of little plusses make a difference.

 

[sidjon]

If that's right it's a wonder any kids are born

Human have sh!t in calf rate (less than 30%) , we're going through IVF and after 10 goes, still no kids, cow would've been culled

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

Human have sh!t in calf rate (less than 30%) , we're going through IVF and after 10 goes, still no kids, cow would've been culled

Who said it’s the cows fault. . The bull could be the problem.

 

[upnortheast]

we're going through IVF and after 10 goes, still no kids

Sorry to hear of your problems, that`s tough

 

[garethpjones]

@organicguy we haven't finished scanning the cows and the bulls are still in at the moment so can't really give full results yet. However, the first scanning results had around the 130 insems in 10 days (cows this is not heifers)(there will be a handful few double services in that) and that resulted in 58 PD+ cows. Probs 50/50 sexed/conv.

Our block isn't super tight at the moment so of those 130 there were 30 under 50 days post calving and 20 between 50-60 post calving when served (but 20 of those PD+ were in those brackets so worth doing I think!)

 

[organicguy]

That doesn't sound too bad, sexed will most likely knock it, but that can be very bull and semen company dependent!
I would expect at the start of the block with un sexed to be close to 65%, sexed can be anywhere from there down! but I have times when it is all over the shop.

 

[som farmer]

have any found significant differences between the various types of sexed semen ? Our tech was quite scathing about some firms, had thought it was pretty well sorted, so a suprise, and are using conventional, because of that. The tight block, is the target, hfrs can be bought.

 

[organicguy]

I have had 65% down to 34%, three bulls, 2 companies, 3 years so too many variables to complain!