Serviced agronomists, do they take advantage of the customer?
- Thread starter An Gof
- Start date
........... but I’m bound to hear
Hear, hear.
- Location
- Bedfordshire
Ahhh another month ticks by and as usual another monthly serviced agronomist rant.
Basically, two farmers got shafted for years by one company and a guy who abused their trust and now they are out to exact revenge. Any notion of not tarring everyone with the same brush is lost in the consequent red mist.
Anyone who believes that all independent agronomists must be whiter than white is just as bad. I've known farmers refer to characters as the 'invisible man' because they never saw him. Others complained a pallet load of slug pellets would arrive before the rape had even been drilled. Entire areas blanket sprayed with herbicide because it saved walking it, still: 'cheap' chemical....
As for the legendary reduced fungicide, herbicide or growth reg spend, I'm all in favour. BYDV is just a figment of your imagination and crops don't lodge if you plant them in the correct phase of the moon.
Wow. As my mother would say, do you want to go back to bed and then get out on the other side.
- Location
- the brecks norfolk
A repeated protest of innocence is often a sign of guilt. Have we hit a raw nerve @ollie989898 with our serviced agro bashing.
ollie989898
Member
No, I think the kind of attitudes on this place regarding this subject are quite amusing. It doesn't actually affect me in the slightest now anyway and it never did when I was in the job either.
What I do not understand is why an agronomist would get get upset at telling a farmer what a particular treatment or product would cost per acre (or hectare if that is the language being spoken)? I used to get asked on a fairly regular basis what X and Y would cost as people weighed up what they wanted to do or not do. If you can't be honest with a client what the fudge is that relationship about?
I had dairy clients where the service I offered was simply unavailable from an 'independent' source. I did the whole job, from start to finish, soil testing, lime, fertiliser, seed, walked the maize, wheat, beet and every acre of grass that went with it as well along with the muck, fert and other paperwork trails if they wanted my help with them. You aren't going to get an independent doing all that, a lot of them won't have the time or wouldn't know grass except the stuff in your lawn. Some of these places would have had a turnover well in excess of that which constitutes a 2000 acre arable unit, too, so dealing with people who knew their onions, some of them were members of these much-fabled buying groups as well although all they ever seemed to buy from them instead of me was fertiliser and I was never to worried about not wearing that crown.
Similarly, I would do the above for virtually anyone right down to small scale farms which were smaller family units who just wanted to grow more grass and have an easier life. It is not beyond the whit of man to ring around several suppliers of agrochemicals and find prices. None of my customers ever complained to me about the cost of any of chemistry- they were paying for the service and the only reason it worked was because I added value to virtually everything I did. I took back chemical that went un-used. I'd find them another buyer for seed they couldn't use and I knew a lot of people because of my previous background and help think my way around a problem if they had one. Plenty of people will run around hundreds of acres of wheat and OSR for you for £3 an acre but how many takers for the service I gave?
Not that any of that is really relevant now anyway; I would say that I know a lot of very big farmers are still using serviced agronomy which somewhat reinforces my view that they perceive value beyond the price of an individual can. That said, these national companies must surely be able to service these big units at half sensible prices or no one would ever use them? If the value of their chemical business was great enough and was matched by the time involved, I don't see why they could be no real difference between who supplied the stuff once the walking fee was taken into consideration.
I don't understand why independent agronomists would want to dirty their hands and get involved with supplying product whatsoever. Better just to send sheets of paper by email and get paid. Unless of course, you supply chemical over 20,000 acres and pocket a rebate yourself from the manufacturers to supplement your walking fee which might explain how people can afford to walk anything for £3 an acre and still afford to run a truck and quadbike.
What I do not understand is why an agronomist would get get upset at telling a farmer what a particular treatment or product would cost per acre (or hectare if that is the language being spoken)? I used to get asked on a fairly regular basis what X and Y would cost as people weighed up what they wanted to do or not do. If you can't be honest with a client what the fudge is that relationship about?
I had dairy clients where the service I offered was simply unavailable from an 'independent' source. I did the whole job, from start to finish, soil testing, lime, fertiliser, seed, walked the maize, wheat, beet and every acre of grass that went with it as well along with the muck, fert and other paperwork trails if they wanted my help with them. You aren't going to get an independent doing all that, a lot of them won't have the time or wouldn't know grass except the stuff in your lawn. Some of these places would have had a turnover well in excess of that which constitutes a 2000 acre arable unit, too, so dealing with people who knew their onions, some of them were members of these much-fabled buying groups as well although all they ever seemed to buy from them instead of me was fertiliser and I was never to worried about not wearing that crown.
Similarly, I would do the above for virtually anyone right down to small scale farms which were smaller family units who just wanted to grow more grass and have an easier life. It is not beyond the whit of man to ring around several suppliers of agrochemicals and find prices. None of my customers ever complained to me about the cost of any of chemistry- they were paying for the service and the only reason it worked was because I added value to virtually everything I did. I took back chemical that went un-used. I'd find them another buyer for seed they couldn't use and I knew a lot of people because of my previous background and help think my way around a problem if they had one. Plenty of people will run around hundreds of acres of wheat and OSR for you for £3 an acre but how many takers for the service I gave?
Not that any of that is really relevant now anyway; I would say that I know a lot of very big farmers are still using serviced agronomy which somewhat reinforces my view that they perceive value beyond the price of an individual can. That said, these national companies must surely be able to service these big units at half sensible prices or no one would ever use them? If the value of their chemical business was great enough and was matched by the time involved, I don't see why they could be no real difference between who supplied the stuff once the walking fee was taken into consideration.
I don't understand why independent agronomists would want to dirty their hands and get involved with supplying product whatsoever. Better just to send sheets of paper by email and get paid. Unless of course, you supply chemical over 20,000 acres and pocket a rebate yourself from the manufacturers to supplement your walking fee which might explain how people can afford to walk anything for £3 an acre and still afford to run a truck and quadbike.
- Location
- S E Glos
I don't think there would be a problem if all growers were shown the service agro's recommendations and given chance to question it. Remarkably though in many cases the communication is between agro and spray operator. Not the agro's fault in this case, it's the attitude of the farmer. It's like the Tesco or Morrison's delivery van arriving with your shopping order that they decided on and put together without input from you.
Let’s be fair, everyone’s out to make money in any industry. It is the farmers fault for being clueless, agronomy on combineable crops is not rocket science and it’s very easy to find prices. I’ve got little sympathy for the farmers. What does annoy me is overuse of pesticides causing environmental and resistance problems. That does affect me.
warksfarmer
Member
You see that is what I’m on about. It’s theft.
Chae1
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Was speaking my agronomist today about a product I've been invoiced £90 for and is on farm marketplace for £56.
Spencer
Member
- Location
- North West
What product?
Slightly off topic , but it's what you want isn't .... if you can't be arsed to swat up on a bit of agronomy then fine , if you're making money then fine , if your crops are beautiful then fine , if none of these apply do it yourself .
I was put in an invidious postion today as the conditioner belts went on the mower , rang my only local dealer who tbf are very good , but £43 each and there's 4 , bet I could get them for a fiver online .... but .... I wanted them today and the mower makes me money .
Horses for courses .
I was put in an invidious postion today as the conditioner belts went on the mower , rang my only local dealer who tbf are very good , but £43 each and there's 4 , bet I could get them for a fiver online .... but .... I wanted them today and the mower makes me money .
Horses for courses .
Wilberforce
Member
- Location
- North Shropshire
Guessing CTL
- Location
- Dorset/Wilts
You beat me to it
- Location
- Shropshire
I do my own agronomy and email out for prices.
One of the products was Librax (bought for 309, quotes of 309-318).
Anyway, when spraying the Librax I was a can short so popped in to the local shop (one of the quoted firms) and picked a can up. No advice, I even went into the store to find the correct chem as their name was different to Librax but same stuff. I left the shop and sprayed it on the wheat.
2 weeks later the invoice came through. £380! £68 above their quoted price!
Anyway, I rang them demanding a credit note and have told them I’m not going to pay for it until credit note arrives. I’ve also asked for a different Agronomist to price my quotes and products!
One of the products was Librax (bought for 309, quotes of 309-318).
Anyway, when spraying the Librax I was a can short so popped in to the local shop (one of the quoted firms) and picked a can up. No advice, I even went into the store to find the correct chem as their name was different to Librax but same stuff. I left the shop and sprayed it on the wheat.
2 weeks later the invoice came through. £380! £68 above their quoted price!
Anyway, I rang them demanding a credit note and have told them I’m not going to pay for it until credit note arrives. I’ve also asked for a different Agronomist to price my quotes and products!
ollie989898
Member
I've always said that the genuine arable farmers out there should do BASIS because it compliments their sprayer courses and actually makes the relationship between client and agronomist smoother. I encouraged the more arable-minded clients of mine to walk fields with me- it greatly simplified the job for me because they could spot the weeds or whatever as well as I could and then understood what I was doing.
A lot of other clients, however, do not have the time or interest to walk a lot of crops- they relied on me to do that. A few larger dairy farmers would walk their own stuff to see how it was doing. The classic example is docks in their maize, docks can be left alone or you can tackle them in the crop. If they had seen them themselves I had no problems adding fluroxypyr to the tank.
It is not too difficult when it comes to the science and I would encourage everyone interested in crops to do the BASIS course. Even if you fail the thing you will have learnt plenty enough.
- Location
- Bedfordshire
Basis should be made more farmer friendly, I grow cereals, pulses, OSR and grass.
Sugar beet, potatoes and veg mean nothing to me at all and I’ve not interest in learning about them.
Sugar beet, potatoes and veg mean nothing to me at all and I’ve not interest in learning about them.
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ollie989898
Member
That same line has been taken by many a trainee agronomist.... you learn the lot or not at all I think. It's not that difficult.
- Location
- Shropshire
Can you re-punctuate that post please? I can’t work out what you grow or don’t
- Location
- West Midlands
Can you do a sort of pre basis course anywhere?