- Location
- Berkshire
Justified responsible use V sales driven use...
Serviced agronomists, do they take advantage of the customer?
- Thread starter An Gof
- Start date
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Do all independent agronomist never on any occasion advise / recommend a treatment unless it is truly justified? Be interested to hear, for example, on this thread about autumn pyrethroid advice on cereals from independent agronomists. Or on same tack before its demise the advice on which crops to treat with Deter seed treatment. Or other such more 'controversial' issues. The thread is I appreciate about service/sales agronomists and is to malign them almost en masse. Personally I consider there are possibly good and bad in both camps. Hey ho.
- Location
- Berkshire
I think these threads have consistently acknowledged that all agronomists have decisions to make at time based on perceived risk and the clients objectives, it's been said time and time again that there is a huge depth of talent in the serviced ranks.
However i have met more agronomists recently who have left the trade as they have felt compromised by selling the high margin stuff and not what they'd like to recommend, more who have become disillusioned with chasing sales targets rather than targeted inputs, but it comes down to an Indy has nothing more to sell other than his or hers reputation and ability.
I'm happier with the approach of buying advice and inputs separately should have a knock on effect of better product choice and lower use of actives, this isn't a slur on any trade agros ability, more the approach of some distributors, but ultimately plenty of farmers are happy to make this choice so good look to them, Hey ho...
The only thing an indy can get wrong is the recommendation. He can't get the chemical choice wrong or be blamed for no delivery or the wrong stuff delivered because he has nothing to do with that. Simple put he walks the crops, gives a recommendation of AI's and rates and job done.
With serviced they are doing everything except applying the stuff.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Hi, I beg to disagree on the chemical choice. And indy can get it wrong as well.
As for blame for wrong stuff delivered that to an extent depends on the depth of service which Indy supplies. There are some that arrange for supply as well - for example from a buying group.
The other points you refer to are logistics of stocking and supplying the stuff and then the pricing of the items. On pricing which seems to get a fair bit of air time on here, I can get cauliflower from same Lincolnshire field at different prices by simply visiting Waitrose or Aldi.
I must be careful on this thread and forum as being tarnished as a service agronomist appeaser. But my observations is that there is a complex supply chain that requires some funding and profitability. And a range of agronomists.
But I am not out for picking a fight. Best wishes.
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
It is not just an organic variety but a high grade milling variety with the potential of +£15 over Group 1 into Heygates. But the yield potential is a little below Skyfall/Zyatt.
Very difficult to call if a variety with good disease resistance means you can skip a spray but what it does do is give you a bit more flexibility on when you need to spray.
An Independent agronomist walks a crop and decides on the AI needed.
A serviced agronomist walks a crop and then thinks about what he is trying to achieve with the chemicals they have in stock whilst thinking about the margin in the chemical sales. Its a very different job in my view and one that should be separated.
- Location
- S E Glos
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Due to excitement of early ordering, and low disease year I have maybe six grand of chem in my shed. Yes, it will keep but it could be the difference between ending the year with a grand of cash, or five grand in the overdraft I don't have. My "fault" but service agronomist would pick it up and credit me.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Corrected for you
But do independent agronomist not think ahead with some thoughts about actives and products. I read my TAG strategy documents and there seems to be a plan laid out in those documents. Is that not similar if not same.
I must really now shut up as I will come across even more as a service appeaser.
Hey ho, as I say not wishing to pick any fights.
Been at a conference this week with some French farming delegates. Apparently new legislation is coming in to place in France and those that give the recommendation will legally NOT be allowed to supply. This is likely to cause problems for some co-ops.
Also there is to be NO price differential allowed between quantity of chemical ordered. Whether you order a pallet or one can each unit must be invoiced at the same price. It was explained to me that this was so that buying and therefore potentially using larger amounts was not attractive.
If you think we have problems here you haven’t a clue what French arable farmers are going through at the moment.
The worrying thing for us is what starts in one place usually ends up in another. With the balance of MEP’s now changed following the recent elections and more green MEP’s in position things are forecast to get MUCH more difficult for conventional farmers.
Also there is to be NO price differential allowed between quantity of chemical ordered. Whether you order a pallet or one can each unit must be invoiced at the same price. It was explained to me that this was so that buying and therefore potentially using larger amounts was not attractive.
If you think we have problems here you haven’t a clue what French arable farmers are going through at the moment.
The worrying thing for us is what starts in one place usually ends up in another. With the balance of MEP’s now changed following the recent elections and more green MEP’s in position things are forecast to get MUCH more difficult for conventional farmers.
Oh and did I mention on TFF that when I visited Holland on a study tour last month that they are legally restricted to maximum spraying speed of 8kph and from next year will have to have a system that logs the use of their sprayer in real time with he authorities.
- Location
- S E Glos
Strategy documents lay out the options for various scenarios, these are identified or updated as the season progresses. We don't do field walking so not really comparable with the subject of this thread, final decision is left with the farmer but we try and help him/her all the way.
warksfarmer
Member
How do you know Tag’s advice is truly independent? They could easily be suggesting things to suit their business income.
- Location
- Minehead,Somerset
The other strange thing in Holland is lack of proper buffer zones, 50cm for cereals and 150cm for spuds against water ?
- Location
- S E Glos
Our business income comes from telling the truth. It's rare these days and attracts a lot of interest, and hence business.
Good grief Fromey, that was restrained !
You could say the same about indepenent agronomists and each one will have a favorite chem that they thinks does a better job than others at least tag has lots of them so they can discuss it before making a decision
You’re being so ludicrously cynical maybe you should do the trials yourself.
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
they publish all the trials results for all members to see plenty of farmers understand the science and interprete the results and would soon call out niab tag if they did not recommend the alternatives and back it up with trials results
their biggest strength has always been they will recommend no action if that is the best for the farmer
but for nervous farmers will give the options and the risks
warksfarmer
Member
We have done. Shdi trials and they made zero difference to yield. There’s a thread on here with yield maps proving it.