Sewage - today’s Telegraph

[DaveGrohl]

Front page of today’s Telegraph. There was a thread on here about this but I can’t find it this morning so apols for starting a new thread.

 

[bluebell]

Thats to try to stop them going bust? Thames water is in a serious financial problems at the moment and if pushed to hard by any govt, will just pack up wind up finish call it what ever and yet again the tax payer will be left to pick up the bill?

 

[Werzle]

The economy is fcked without house building but the sewers cannot cope , looks like nature is the fall guy. Criminal that water companies have been able to pay share holders huge sums and not update sewer systems. I had an acre of black shite on a field after a brook flooded this winter from a plant further upstream, bakes on the ground and kills the grass.

 

[egbert]

Thats to try to stop them going bust? Thames water is in a serious financial problems at the moment and if pushed to hard by any govt, will just pack up wind up finish call it what ever and yet again the tax payer will be left to pick up the bill?

Laws re privatised utilities/infrastructure spending evidently need overhauling.
Ultimately, obviously, the customer should be paying, but allowing 'investors' to take a dip first (ah ha!) has been the problem.

It's going to be costly to fix, but that's the price of selling the family silver.

Large scale new builds on green field sites should maybe have obligation to install treatment systems right from the get go.
One 'out of town' site near me was allegedly permitted to install pumps, to push untreated crap up over the brow, so it would then run back down into the municipal sewer.
SWW then had to adopt the feckin stoopid system. Developers walked away.

 

[onesiedale]

The economy is fcked without house building but the sewers cannot cope , looks like nature is the fall guy. Criminal that water companies have been able to pay share holders huge sums and not update sewer systems. I had an acre of black shite on a field after a brook flooded this winter from a plant further upstream, bakes on the ground and kills the grass.

the black shite is covering hundreds of acres down here on the River Thame.
We have 60 acres last had stock on it in September, and it is currently looking (and smelling) like a tidal estuary.

 

[Yale]

This problem lies firmly with government. They have allowed the water companies to do the minimum or less and get away with it. From the perspective of developers it is also a disaster as hundreds of projects into which millions of pounds have been invested jumping through hoops to get planning permission have been on hold for years in cases due to not being issued permission to join to the sewage system. In fact a local development here is in that position due to phosphate restrictions which came in 2021. Welsh water are only now starting to move a bit. It’s scandalous!

 

[som farmer]

just built an estate near us, p/p refused for decades, as field is lower than the mains sewage.

passed it, when they said they will install a pump, to enable the mains to have it.

20+ houses there now, no doubt they will be liable for running costs.

 

[Oliveau]

Laws re privatised utilities/infrastructure spending evidently need overhauling.
Ultimately, obviously, the customer should be paying, but allowing 'investors' to take a dip first (ah ha!) has been the problem.

It's going to be costly to fix, but that's the price of selling the family silver.

Large scale new builds on green field sites should maybe have obligation to install treatment systems right from the get go.
One 'out of town' site near me was allegedly permitted to install pumps, to push untreated crap up over the brow, so it would then run back down into the municipal sewer.
SWW then had to adopt the feckin stoopid system. Developers walked away.

Exactly the problem- Developers can install what they like to connect to the system, then make the utility adopt it. I can remember going to a development site around Plymouth (50 odd houses) where the developer‘s sewers end up in the lowest part of the site, with the main sewer being in a road many metres higher.
Developer said he could requisition a connection.
‘Very true sir, but we will need a pumping station, which you will have to pay for and the cost will have future maintenance built in.’
Exit apoplectic developer.

 

[Bury the Trash]

the council shouldn't grant planning permission unless the infrastructure is in place or capable, but they do we see it locally many examples.
they dont care like a lot of others , its all about money ,

 

[onesiedale]

councils grant pp's because they have targets to meet.

 

[Wesley]

I take it you lot haven’t recieved the email from the EA? They understand farmers are under a great deal of financial pressure so rather than force us to spend money on infrastructure they say we can just pump it straight in the river & they’ll look the other way.

 

[Bury the Trash]

councils grant pp's because they have targets to meet.

and money to make. more houses more council tax for which they dont provide much useful or forward ly beneficial to the locality. at all.
more racket than at Wimbledon in june

 

[Exfarmer]

The Government has put massive pressure on Councils to allow more development
The Government has put massive pressure on The Regulator OFWAT to keep water and sewage charges down.
The Government has pressured the regulator to make Water companies borrow short term as interest costs were lower than long Term to keep charges low.
Governments have added extra costs in to the system such as increasing environmental and other regulatory costs but not allowed them to be passed on to customers
It is the government to blame for the situation we find ourselves in
The Water companies have actually paid out dividends at the rough figure of 1% per year over the period since privatisation, hardly an excessive return can you tell me how many of you would expect such figures for an investment?

 

[Wesley]

The Government has put massive pressure on Councils to allow more development
The Government has put massive pressure on The Regulator OFWAT to keep water and sewage charges down.
The Government has pressured the regulator to make Water companies borrow short term as interest costs were lower than long Term to keep charges low.
Governments have added extra costs in to the system such as increasing environmental and other regulatory costs but not allowed them to be passed on to customers
It is the government to blame for the situation we find ourselves in
The Water companies have actually paid out dividends at the rough figure of 1% per year over the period since privatisation, hardly an excessive return can you tell me how many of you would expect such figures for an investment?

& what do the people in charge of these companies take home each year?

 

[Exfarmer]

& what do the people in charge of these companies take home each year?

boss of Thames gets £2.3 million, which I think is grossly excessive but again the Regulator has a say in that

 

[Yale]

The Government has put massive pressure on Councils to allow more development
The Government has put massive pressure on The Regulator OFWAT to keep water and sewage charges down.
The Government has pressured the regulator to make Water companies borrow short term as interest costs were lower than long Term to keep charges low.
Governments have added extra costs in to the system such as increasing environmental and other regulatory costs but not allowed them to be passed on to customers
It is the government to blame for the situation we find ourselves in
The Water companies have actually paid out dividends at the rough figure of 1% per year over the period since privatisation, hardly an excessive return can you tell me how many of you would expect such figures for an investment?

You have to ask why any public service should make a distributable profit?

 

[Exfarmer]

You have to ask why any public service should make a distributable profit?

They in a similar situation to Farmers providing an essential service, we provide food , they take the remains away, why should they do this service for no profit any more than we expect farmers to do there share for nothing.
If you want a company to provide a service it is reasonable to expect the shareholders to get a dividend. If as the government wanted when it privatised the water industry for companies to invest, it was essential to do 2 things. First as the company would have a monopoly to set up a regulatory body too ensure the company did not from Day 1 charge the consumer an undue amount for the service. Second, it had to then guarantee that the company could charge a reasonable sum to ensure the shareholders would invest in the systems

 

[Yale]

They in a similar situation to Farmers providing an essential service, we provide food , they take the remains away, why should they do this service for no profit any more than we expect farmers to do there share for nothing.
If you want a company to provide a service it is reasonable to expect the shareholders to get a dividend. If as the government wanted when it privatised the water industry for companies to invest, it was essential to do 2 things. First as the company would have a monopoly to set up a regulatory body too ensure the company did not from Day 1 charge the consumer an undue amount for the service. Second, it had to then guarantee that the company could charge a reasonable sum to ensure the shareholders would invest in the systems

Are farmers a public utility?

When you think about it they do tick a few boxes.

 

[Exfarmer]

Are farmers a public utility?

When you think about it they do tick a few boxes.

The water companies in England are private ( that is not government owned) companies just as farms are.
I would think most farmers earn more pro rata than the boss of Thames Water

 

[deleted user 837354]

Just think, the UK could have a great wastewater system if it wasn't for shareholders extracting billions out of water companies annually.