SFI from a dairy perspective

[DairyNerd]

Feel like i need to make a decision on what to do with this SFI. What are your plans?

There are quite generous payments on offer. I have heard of several local farmers putting everything into SAM3, £360ish/Ha, buying some seed and throwing it around and thinking it's easy money. Even the youtube video on it shows a field in SAM3 with about 1 herb per acre. Doesn't sit easy with me though. Of course, if you are truly going down the herbal ley route then it is a good option. We have a lot of white clover, I was going to put the whole farm in the legume payment which is a lot less but probably more truthful to what we are doing. Thoughts?

Asked this on SFI thread but posting here for dairy farming perspective.
I should say I hate all this crap, I just want to farm and don't really want any help to do so but if you don't do something you are basically getting left behind!

 

[PDB]

Ditto. Depends whether you do herbal leys in good faith or not

very little research on them. Plenty of evidence that cows milk well on grass and clover though

 

[dinderleat]

Do the herbal leys try to establish if it doesn’t work you can give me the money. It’s only a 3 year agreement.

 

[upnortheast]

Putting Red clover into silage fields & herbal into grazing fields.

Along with some other options comes to almost what our SFP was

Still to decide best way of putting the seed in.
Probably Red clover after 1st or 2nd cut ??

Not sure about grazing fields ?

 

[DairyNerd]

@dinderleat what mix are you going to try and establish? Just chicory and clover or more herbs?

 

[jackrussell101]

All the big intensive dairy farms around here are herbal overseeding all their grass leys, personally I don't think it'll work very well, but the SAM 3 aims are so loose it almost says so long as you've had a go and can prove you have you'll receive the money irrespective of the results. They're expecting to double their BPS doing it. Can't see there's enough money in the national pot personally and I'm sure it'll get pulled with reduced payments rates or tightened up with various herb thresholds per square m² etc etc. The French have had their payments reduced 3 times already from their initial starting point last year.

 

[Tasteless]

Id personally play the "herbal lay" card as the terms are for too loose. But professionally we've just gone for legume option.

 

[Beef farmer]

Put every grass acre here into sam3.
Will do our best to make it work.
Sfi is better than sfp ever was for us. Add some mid tier in too.

 

[Beef farmer]

@dinderleat what mix are you going to try and establish? Just chicory and clover or more herbs?

Plantain seems to be the easiest to keep going in an intensive dairy situation. Certainly grows here, with slurry and bagged N.

 

[Northern territory]

Put every grass acre here into sam3.
Will do our best to make it work.
Sfi is better than sfp ever was for us. Add some mid tier in too.

For now. Will it last at the same levels or inflation related for 10-15 years, doubtful. It’s a bribe at the moment the way I see it

 

[Beef farmer]

For now. Will it last at the same levels or inflation related for 10-15 years, doubtful. It’s a bribe at the moment the way I see it

But be foolish not to take a 13th milk cheque a year for the next 3 years.

 

[som farmer]

only ever wanted to farm, now decades later they want us to be park keepers !

do what l have always done, follow the money. SFI earning, is more than SFP, and more than the rent we pay on a lot of our away ground

SAM 3, herbal leys, grow them already by choice, so that's a dead easy one, changing as much away ground into them, as we can. Our driest banks will go into wild bird mix, flowers or whatever pays the most, shoot will pay for that, as well. And our intensive ground will become more intensive ! Not sure that's what the guv wants, but ...................up theirs.

one minor problem to overcome, which might be worthwhile for others to check out, we have an 8 acre scheduled monument, which we think we can only use a wild flower mix in, nothing else, and you have to apply for a HEFER report, we find we have quite a lot of archaeology listed in the report, so will have to apply to do the h/leys on them,

on the herbal leys, chicory and plantain grow the best, on the legumes, w & r clover, trefoil and alsike grow best. There is a grazing lucerne available. But management is a bit different to using a plate meter ! Although it appears to say, attempting to drill one, is enough

we find the dairy do well on them, far superior to prg/clover in a dry time, but to be fair, not that far behind in a damp time, whether they produce enough N, so no need to apply any, time will answer that one, definitely reduced N.

we started trying them simply because we kept drying out in summer, no grass. They have certainly sorted that out, you will get 4 weeks extra growth, from when prg stops, and just sends up seed heads. Very much rotational grazing, as opposed to set stocking, set stocked, cattle would graze the herbs out, they like them.

 

[som farmer]

For now. Will it last at the same levels or inflation related for 10-15 years, doubtful. It’s a bribe at the moment the way I see it

10 - 15 yrs ???? try just the initial 3 yrs, guv won't be able to pay after that, and will want more production, to keep food costs down.

damn certain they haven't realised how much production will fall, lads on the poorer arable areas, can't wait to get signed up, and for them, the legume options, will seriously improve their soils.

 

[Northern territory]

10 - 15 yrs ???? try just the initial 3 yrs, guv won't be able to pay after that, and will want more production, to keep food costs down.

damn certain they haven't realised how much production will fall, lads on the poorer arable areas, can't wait to get signed up, and for them, the legume options, will seriously improve their soils.

question is though will they pay for it.

 

[som farmer]

question is though will they pay for it.

for the initial 3 yrs, think they will, after that, all bets are off. It depends on so many actions, outside of farming, which guv have no control over.

can they continue to import enough 'cheap' food, or increase the amount they import ?
freight charges will increase, ships diverting around war zones, Suez, for example.
insurance and fuel will increase.

and that's just if the fighting in Ukraine, Middle East, West coast of Africa, doesn't spread, if it does, heaven forbid, huge problems, but food will be needed, no alternative.

food price, is dictated by supply, any shortage is good for farming, but not for the country, but politicians know best, or at least they think they do.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Ditto. Depends whether you do herbal leys in good faith or not

very little research on them. Plenty of evidence that cows milk well on grass and clover though

I've been growing semi herbal leys for years ,dairy farm who cuts and grazes them loves them
Late cut last year did 18% P just under 13 me
They are mainly Grass Red/White Clover ,Chicory Plantain , so may have to add a bit to claim SFI .

 

[sidjon]

Put every grass acre here into sam3.
Will do our best to make it work.
Sfi is better than sfp ever was for us. Add some mid tier in too.

Done the same, plus some off ground has been put into winter bird food too

 

[Tsa115]

I've been growing semi herbal leys for years ,dairy farm who cuts and grazes them loves them
Late cut last year did 18% P just under 13 me
They are mainly Grass Red/White Clover ,Chicory Plantain , so may have to add a bit to claim SFI .

How and what time of year do you establish this mix? Bulky crop id assume?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

How and what time of year do you establish this mix? Bulky crop id assume?

We have quite a wet climate where we farm so anytime really between April and end of August although we are carfull not to sow if its to dry ,its important to get a good fast germination,
I've direct drilled into burnt off pasture , ploughed and conveniently seeded , but quite impressed with the results we are getting overseeding into silage leys

 

[Beef farmer]

I've been growing semi herbal leys for years ,dairy farm who cuts and grazes them loves them
Late cut last year did 18% P just under 13 me
They are mainly Grass Red/White Clover ,Chicory Plantain , so may have to add a bit to claim SFI .

Let's see an analysis of some 12.8me silage please. Will make it my goal to achieve such a feat.