SFI - What % have or where you going to taking out of production?

[Derrick Hughes]

I'm not talking of ploughing up your grass fields just grazing them real tight or cutting for silage then harrow them hard & scatter herbal seeds & let them compete with the existing grasses, I've seen nothing in the rules so far that says as long as you've planted it & can provide evidence that there has to be a certain percentage of herbs continuing to grow, have you?

I'm selling a lot of seed for that, but to be fair that's been my main business or herbals over the years , Semi herbals for livestock farmers
I agree nothing in the rules they can't, only thing if its a straight Ryegrass ley then maybe add some Cocksfoot and Timothy, a lot of intensive livestock men will take some convining though , most of them on here call herbs weeds and Chicory in particular they call it the 2cd Dock

 

[topground]

I'm not talking of ploughing up your grass fields just grazing them real tight or cutting for silage then harrow them hard & scatter herbal seeds & let them compete with the existing grasses, I've seen nothing in the rules so far that says as long as you've planted it & can provide evidence that there has to be a certain percentage of herbs continuing to grow, have you?

You would be relying on the RPA to interpret the rules in your favour which suggests that you trust them, Do you feel lucky? Well. Do you?

 

[BrianV]

You would be relying on the RPA to interpret the rules in your favour which suggests that you trust them, Do you feel lucky? Well. Do you?
View attachment 1171947

Of course my reply would be,

 

[Henarar]

We now have a two tier sub system which is totally unjust and unfair!

its nothing that hasn't happened before,
they have changed environmental payment scheme's before and let old agreements run and some for those agreements were 10 years not just three, we missed out on renewing our ESA agreement while others had 9 more years.

Its tough on those that didn't get on with the job but its not unprecedented, just got to make the best of it as we had to.

 

[Boysground]

I'm selling a lot of seed for that, but to be fair that's been my main business or herbals over the years , Semi herbals for livestock farmers
I agree nothing in the rules they can't, only thing if its a straight Ryegrass ley then maybe add some Cocksfoot and Timothy, a lot of intensive livestock men will take some convining though , most of them on here call herbs weeds and Chicory in particular they call it the 2cd Dock

i am not having a go go at you Derrick but i do seem to be getting a lot of calls asking if i would like to buy so and so’s SFI mixtures. I am wondering if there will soon be as many people selling this as there are maize seed?

For the arable boys, the world and his dog sell maize seed and there are a million varieties.Buying cereals is so much simpler.

Bg

 

[Henarar]

Oh and we have taken nothing out of production

 

[Derrick Hughes]

i am not having a go go at you Derrick but i do seem to be getting a lot of calls asking if i would like to buy so and so’s SFI mixtures. I am wondering if there will soon be as many people selling this as there are maize seed?

For the arable boys, the world and his dog sell maize seed and there are a million varieties.Buying cereals is so much simpler.

Bg

Yes there will be
In my defence I've been selling herbal leys and overseed mixes for many years , we have Addas and Corteva Trail Sites here testing herbal sprays and mixes also
But the more that sell seed is only good news for farmers , competition brings down prices , that's why I said it was a load of tosh when someone said seed merchants were hiking their prices, seed selling is not a closed shop Like new tractor sales are ,can charge what they like.

 

[farmerm]

After this autumn I could have have torn up some bad crop and gone 75% for this year but I want the flexibility to be able to drop to 25% going forward if cropping profitability improves. Best thing they could do is remove or reduce the minimum requirement of 50% of year 1 commitment for year 2 and 3!

 

[Rossymons]

10% bird seed, hedges, soil sampling, NUM1 and IPM1 gets me to ⅔ of my BPS money without adding any other sexy bits.

 

[Zippy768]

10% bird seed, hedges, soil sampling, NUM1 and IPM1 gets me to ⅔ of my BPS money without adding any other sexy bits.

I would be classed as the "above 25%" crew. But broken down, it totals old bps + break crop money. Not weighed equally

 

[benny6910]

About 30% here. Num3 will be used as a break crop replacement for osr and possibly beans.

 

[4course]

looks as if igl

About 20%. Mainly IGL2. Its on less productive land and some is not suitable for arable crops.
I established SAM3 (herbal ley) on some arable land to compensate for any loss of production from that.

IGL2 isn't really taking land out of production though is it? Planning to cut once and its possible to graze during March if you have sheep.

weve put 7% into igl 2 ,whole fields of improved grass on a slope( off lying land) that is effectively its own round bale buncher !!. atm looks like we wont be affected as from the blurb on defra site it doesnt say got to be in strips etc so hopefully that will still be the case as strips in these small fields is a non starter . , Actually seems to be working there is plenty of wildlife around not just birds plus as we cant graze these fields in the winter due to our fellow man and their dogs and m.bikes which because the grass is longer than usual they dont go in as much as obviously dont want to get their £150 plus trainers wet. The loss of a few 3rd cut bales should be minimal and we will take 2 cuts using similar fert as on3 cuts a bit earlier than this year to ensure seeds on the ryegrass and there wont be much loss in production .The payment more than pays the rent and any likely cost of buying in some cheaper than I can grow 3rd cut for hay/haylage probably off a neighbour who has put some herbal ley in if we have to alter plans. With non insecticide ipm4 winter legumes in grass num 2plus the other stuff sampling hedges etc can get the payments around the old bps without taking any land out of production ,therefore Ireckon im still going to be producing as much food as before whilst helping the birdies so surely thats fulfilling the govt/defra aims

 

[gone up the hill]

its nothing that hasn't happened before,
they have changed environmental payment scheme's before and let old agreements run and some for those agreements were 10 years not just three, we missed out on renewing our ESA agreement while others had 9 more years.

Its tough on those that didn't get on with the job but its not unprecedented, just got to make the best of it as we had to.

Yes but in those days you still had equal access to other sub schemes to cover the gap in payments !

The SFI replaces the only sub scheme that had equal access for everyone and which we were told that the SFI rules meant EVERY previous applicant could recover their BPS under the SFI scheme and now it turns out that is far from the case and thousands of farmers have been hung out to dry overnight for no reason !

 

[Henarar]

Yes but in those days you still had equal access to other sub schemes to cover the gap in payments !

no there wasn't ESA was better than the entry level that followed, as above some carried on with ESA after our agreement ended and we couldn't renew.

this is nothing new, payments and grants change and have done in the past, if you want what is on offer then best go for it as things change.

 

[Henarar]

The SFI replaces the only sub scheme that had equal access for everyone and which we were told that the SFI rules meant EVERY previous applicant could recover their BPS under the SFI scheme and now it turns out that is far from the case and thousands of farmers have been hung out to dry overnight for no reason !

And maybe they could and now they can't that's the way it is, if the dog hadn't stopped to sh1t he would have caught the rabbit.

 

[glasshouse]

The whole pile of crap is collapsing.
Better now than in 12 months

 

[DrWazzock]

I’ll tell you something. I’m not in SFI, and it’s a whole load less complexity, commitment and constraint. I’m quite enjoying just growing crops now the weather has picked up a bit.
But we might well try herbal leys, and arsble legume fallow to replace breakcrops. We’ve already had a FACTS qualified adviser prepare our NMP for the first time ever but filed it and carried on doing what we normally do, adjusting as we go depending on crop potential etc so in that respect the NMP was another waste of taxpayers money. All very Soviet command and control.
Mixed feelings about the whole thing.
We still don’t have sight of inspection criteria.
And how many extra bodies will DEFRA need to employ to administer, monitor and inspect this scheme that mushrooms in complexity on a daily basis.
They’ve created a bit of a monster in my view. More options is stir fry crazy. I can see it eventually settling out to just a few simple options - if it survives at all.

 

[onthehoof]

Was planning to come out of HLS and go into SFI but then defra moved the goal posts (again)

 

[Hindsight]

I’ll tell you something. I’m not in SFI, and it’s a whole load less complexity, commitment and constraint. I’m quite enjoying just growing crops now the weather has picked up a bit.
But we might well try herbal leys, and arsble legume fallow to replace breakcrops. We’ve already had a FACTS qualified adviser prepare our NMP for the first time ever but filed it and carried on doing what we normally do, adjusting as we go depending on crop potential etc so in that respect the NMP was another waste of taxpayers money. All very Soviet command and control.
Mixed feelings about the whole thing.
We still don’t have sight of inspection criteria.
And how many extra bodies will DEFRA need to employ to administer, monitor and inspect this scheme that mushrooms in complexity on a daily basis.
They’ve created a bit of a monster in my view. More options is stir fry crazy. I can see it eventually settling out to just a few simple options - if it survives at all.

The requirement for a FACTS qualified adviser to complete the NMP to enable receipt of payment and same for IPM plan with BASIS adviser is a true demonstration of how little trust Defra has in farmers.

 

[gone up the hill]

10% bird seed, hedges, soil sampling, NUM1 and IPM1 gets me to ⅔ of my BPS money without adding any other sexy bits.

Yes but how much will doing these things cost you in ££ to start with??