sfi you can now apply

[Billboy1]

It’s a shame you can’t do sam2 multi species now over winter then fill follow with ahl2 in the spring

 

[charlie81]

It’s a shame you can’t do sam2 multi species now over winter then fill follow with ahl2 in the spring

Why can't you do that?

 

[Badshot]

It’s a shame you can’t do sam2 multi species now over winter then fill follow with ahl2 in the spring

If you can provide evidence it's met the aims of the actions then surely you can?
Unless it's specifically prohibited.

 

[4course]

Why can't you do that?

feck knows , "cos its a different crop sown and utilized in a different season"? , I suppose it falls foul of double funding if on the same parcel/field in the same 12 month, but does it anyone asked ?

 

[Billboy1]

feck knows , "cos its a different crop sown and utilized in a different season"? , I suppose it falls foul of double funding if on the same parcel/field in the same 12 month, but does it anyone asked ?

Thats what I was thinking on the rules you read it says it can’t be done

 

[Badshot]

feck knows , "cos its a different crop sown and utilized in a different season"? , I suppose it falls foul of double funding if on the same parcel/field in the same 12 month, but does it anyone asked ?

I'll have a look.
I was surprised by the fact you can do multi species winter cover, followed by companion crop in the spring, on the same parcel.
So long as you meet the aims of both actions.

 

[4course]

I'll have a look.
I was surprised by the fact you can do multi species winter cover, followed by companion crop in the spring, on the same parcel.
So long as you meet the aims of both actions.

Whats the difference in crop timings with companion cropping IPM3 andAHL1 seems to me sow similar time so why cant both be done on the same patch after SAM2 .harvest/destroy similar time mindst the seed cost and establishment of the pollen mix on a rotational basis knock s a fair lump off the payment then ive still got other costs / acre e.g rent, machinery ,ins, finance, mrs 4 courses drawings, etc .
To my way of thinking companion cropping is only any use if could undersow a grass into sp barley but cant make sp barley pay every year so unlikely to happen and I arnt going to make the sp barley stuggle against a mate for £22/ACRE

EDITED as I missed out showing sam 2 before one or the other

EDITED again.. On re reading the how to do it and the actions book there seems to be a conflict as to wether AHL 1 is rotational or not and wether its just for blocks/strips or whole parcels.

 

[Badshot]

It’s a shame you can’t do sam2 multi species now over winter then fill follow with ahl2 in the spring

If you can provide evidence it's met the aims of the actions then surely you can?
Unless it's specifically prohibited.

Unfortunately according to the book, no you can't.
It'd be worth a call, however the helpline is essentially just reading the guidance booklet out, so if it says no in the book, it'll be a no.

It would work well, but the overwinter bird food would obviously have to be kept over the following winter to meet the aim.

 

[Zippy768]

Spring crop of peas or beans or linseed after the ahl2 is sprayed out end Feb, to provide the flowering plants in the summer to meet the ahl2 aims, and get a cash crop before ww instead of a cover? Add in a companion crop if keen ipm3? (Might be the only way peas and beans and linseed stay in the rotation in future?)

But ahl2 is a winter bird feed, no aim to have flowering plants. You'd be free to drill a spring cash crop after winter.

 

[farmgineer]

Where do you call for advice? Looking to shift some CS to SFI (hedges mainly). TIA

 

[Zippy768]

no one payment £732/ha for ahl2. - better than any breakcrop we can grow here at current prices / reliably

To achieve the ahl2 surely one would have to plant the area in the spring to have small seeds available for late autumn to late winter?

Or would one follow a winter barley with 6 crops that'll rattle to seeding through Aug to Nov?
Following spring, carefully drill some beans into the ahl2 - there's the companion.
And obviously don't need an insecticide on any of that either

 

[Clive]

To achieve the ahl2 surely one would have to plant the area in the spring to have small seeds available for late autumn to late winter?
Or would one follow a winter barley with 6 crops that'll rattle to seeding through Aug and Sept?

have explained above - i will establish winter directed after barley to achieve winter feeding aims then glyphosate in spring and establish summer flowers for pollinators

just need to select species that will
get to seed after barley before winter ends growth and get them in fast after the barley / direct drilled to conserve moisture etc

 

[Zippy768]

have explained above - i will establish winter directed after barley to achieve winter feeding aims then glyphosate in spring and establish summer flowers for pollinators

just need to select species that will
get to seed after barley before winter ends growth and get them in fast after the barley / direct drilled to conserve moisture etc

What code constiuents the summer pollinators ?
Ahl2 only really allows lpm3 (companion) and lpm4 (insecticide)

Edit:
Gotcha your thinking now having read the ahl2 again.

If "ahl2" is the "crop" surely a companion could be drilles with it in the spring for the ipm3? and the ipm4 takes care of itself

 

[Zippy768]

have explained above - i will establish winter directed after barley to achieve winter feeding aims then glyphosate in spring and establish summer flowers for pollinators

just need to select species that will
get to seed after barley before winter ends growth and get them in fast after the barley / direct drilled to conserve moisture etc

Unless one could carefully start the agreement on the 1st of Jan?

 

[Zippy768]

growing cover crops works most years - just need to go in tight / direct behind the combine

i’m would hope defra would have the sense to understand as long as you had done everything positive to achieve an aim yet something beyond control prevented outcome you wouldn’t be penalised - i honestly don’t think they have that attitude over sfi like we have seen in the past in S etc

Just reading the bits I missed. Apologies,.you did clearly explain what you were planning.

However one would be running it tight attempting to establish the 6 species in July, and a drought (not unheard of recently) could see it fail.
One may argue then that perhaps you didn't do everything possible to achieve the aim set out in the ahl2 blurb, as giving that option the BEST chance of success would had seen a spring sowing of the 6 species?

I get the idea of using the "aims" loosely enough to make as many options work for u as possible, but perhaps a thin line between that and just trying to find a loophole.

After all, you are trying to find a more stable and riskless crop to replace osr? Seems to me you are replacing slugs and flea beetle with drought and rpa goodwill?

To achieve your aim, surely NUM3 would be the go to? But of course that pays fewer ££.

N.b. that said, I will be speaking to my agronomist to see what 6 crops will grow quick enough and what I could then companion with it in the spring

 

[Billboy1]

it was confirmed on fas webinar last night that you can if you want do sam2 multi species for example wheat and beans ,sow this autumn then take the beans out end of feb then take the wheat through to harvest . that with no pesticide option is nearly same as bps ?

 

[yellow belly]

have explained above - i will establish winter directed after barley to achieve winter feeding aims then glyphosate in spring and establish summer flowers for pollinators

just need to select species that will
get to seed after barley before winter ends growth and get them in fast after the barley / direct drilled to conserve moisture etc

key factors

need a very early barley variety
need to no till with a disc drill probably with row cleaners
any cultivation in early july loses moisture
6 very quick growing species
i would favour relatively low bg land

i have planted mustard 15 august in flower by october

 

[Hindsight]

it was confirmed on fas webinar last night that you can if you want do sam2 multi species for example wheat and beans ,sow this autumn then take the beans out end of feb then take the wheat through to harvest . that with no pesticide option is nearly same as bps ?

Add in n insecticide and all the other plans hedges etc and bonanza - will be more than BPS. Could be fun times ahead.

 

[bobk]

it was confirmed on fas webinar last night that you can if you want do sam2 multi species for example wheat and beans ,sow this autumn then take the beans out end of feb then take the wheat through to harvest . that with no pesticide option is nearly same as bps ?

Would the beans fix any N by february ?

 

[Pigless]

Would the beans fix any N by february ?

As I understand they release it when they die, I've sprayed of volunteers in Feb and was confident the wheat became a darker shade of green. ( Not very scientific, sorry)