Young things might stop eating altogether with bitter tasting bicarb added. Doctor green was/is the best answer and i would be given them a good wormer too
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Sick calves
- Thread starter GmB
- Start date
Sounds like the calves are suffering with major acidosis so would need to treat it first. Drench with bicarb or bicarb bolus. Putting a black rumen on to another totally different diet could be all together too much
`Will tube with an effydral.
Norfolk Hill Farmer
Member
Blood samples can be done to asses the amount of energy and protein being taken from the ration.
- Location
- North Yorkshire
The younger calf on pellets could be a red herring, unrelated death. I would take a look at the raw materials in the protein pellet, more than likely full of cheaper rumen digestible proteins rather than bypass proteins of which soya is one of the best. Their rumens at that age aren’t fully developed so the urea should be pulled straight away, and will struggle with high RDP content such as PK and rapemeal.If you can, replace 50% of the barley with oats, far cheaper than compound and much kinder on the rumen again. If the soya worked fine go back. At that age they eat so little how much extra will it cost per day @15% inclusion? Less than the vet I’ll wager, and if the vet doesn’t know to tell you about urea at that age look for another vet
I agree, soya is the best source, but a jump from £360/t to £600/t was a bit of a shock.
I like to keep things simple in the feed department, altering ratios of protein depending on age of stock, but if I have to go back to soya for the young stock I will, keeping the protein pellets for the older cattle.If the urea is the problem it would have been cheaper to feed soya in hindsight!
Two vets looked at the calves, neither asked what was in the pellet mix.......
I‘ll find an ingredients list and post it here for the more knowledgeable amongst you to analyse
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
- Location
- North Yorkshire
Feeding such a high level of barley at that age really does put a tremendous pressure on them, but I know at the price compared to compound it’s hard not to do it. I’ve been using oats for a while now, getting very good results, cheap energy, fibre and oil. People think they aren’t pokey enough but then buy barley and add beet pulp or hulls to balance the mix back to oat spec at much higher cost. Keep it simple I say and save a packet
- Location
- Essex
How much were they eating before they started going downhill? What about forage?
- Location
- North Yorkshire
Rape, PK, Sunflower and urea. FFS If your rep is selling you that as a soya substitute he wants a bullet. Your problem is right there I’ll wager. Acidosis amplified by little or no protein absorption. Show your vet and see if he’s worth anymore than your feed rep, ie sweet FA. Any feed sold containing urea by law should declare its should only be fed to animals with a fully functioning rumen on the ticket. That is a budget concentrate to feed to big finishing cattle and wouldn’t be much good at that. You could well have a claim thereNot much on the ticket and no mention of not feeding to young stock.
- Location
- Scottsih Borders
As Full of Bulls suggests, the calves could be suffering from urea toxicty.
www.vetstream.com
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Urea toxicity from Vetlexicon | Definitive Veterinary Intelligence
www.vetstream.com
- Location
- somerset
looks like the ration.
further ideas, we were seriously caught out, years ago, 2001, to be exact, with calves not doing, and going backwards, with no idea, and bought ex farm, that was lice, never had them prior to that, and never not had them since, calves now have regular 'flying' from 2/3 weeks, easy to see, pull some white hair apart, and you soon see, yes or no.
Could be rota-virus, or crypto, but old for crypto to show.
What are you feeding as long fibre, hay or straw, if hay, change to straw, much better than hay, which can vary in nutrient value.
And both rep and vet, need speaking to, a £700 bill, with no result, just isn't right, rep, change firms.
feeding calves, up to 4/5 months, they give you the best feed to growth ratio, you will ever get, the cheapest feed, is the best, possible to get, that ration inclusion list, most definitely is not, nor should it ever have been recommended. And for the record, l used to rear 6/700 calves a year.
further ideas, we were seriously caught out, years ago, 2001, to be exact, with calves not doing, and going backwards, with no idea, and bought ex farm, that was lice, never had them prior to that, and never not had them since, calves now have regular 'flying' from 2/3 weeks, easy to see, pull some white hair apart, and you soon see, yes or no.
Could be rota-virus, or crypto, but old for crypto to show.
What are you feeding as long fibre, hay or straw, if hay, change to straw, much better than hay, which can vary in nutrient value.
And both rep and vet, need speaking to, a £700 bill, with no result, just isn't right, rep, change firms.
feeding calves, up to 4/5 months, they give you the best feed to growth ratio, you will ever get, the cheapest feed, is the best, possible to get, that ration inclusion list, most definitely is not, nor should it ever have been recommended. And for the record, l used to rear 6/700 calves a year.
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As you can see, it says “to be fed to growing ruminants only”, could mean any age.
Tubed calf last night with effydral and rehydration sachet, removed protein pellets from the mix fed to ALL 26 calves and have switched back to weana pellets and barley. Fibre source is nice barley straw.
Pleased to say this morning the calf looks a lot brighter, calling for her mates and picking at the pellets, whilst the other calves are tucking into the new mix like there is no tomorrow, obviously tastes better!
Will be having a ‘word’ with the rep and the vet.
- Location
- North Yorkshire
Update.
Rep knew nothing about not feeding urea to calves. When I explained to him what had happened he did ask if I would like to take the complaint further, to which I said at the least they should have better labelling.
Sent the label to the vet who replied that the pellets shouldn’t be given to young calves, but if they are being fed, needs to be a TMR with LOTS of straw to balance it.
Rest of the calves are now going on well, was a very expensive experiment and a hard lesson, but still learning after 35yrs in the job!
Many thanks to all who responded.
Rep knew nothing about not feeding urea to calves. When I explained to him what had happened he did ask if I would like to take the complaint further, to which I said at the least they should have better labelling.
Sent the label to the vet who replied that the pellets shouldn’t be given to young calves, but if they are being fed, needs to be a TMR with LOTS of straw to balance it.
Rest of the calves are now going on well, was a very expensive experiment and a hard lesson, but still learning after 35yrs in the job!
Many thanks to all who responded.
- Location
- North Yorkshire
This is what really vexes me. Hundreds employed like this, £20k+ salary plus car and pension etc., out on the road with no practical knowledge, or even theoretical in this case, sales driven advising on decisions which cost us thousands when they go wrong. The current fad round here is to employ young women, I think because they tend to tow the company line better. They buzz around like drones, reciting from a script with no real idea what they are talking about, last about a year then they’re gone. There should be a minimum qualification in in Nutrition by law before you can sell feed IMO. We pay for it ultimately regardless of how good or bad their advice is
- Location
- Limousin, France
- Location
- Limousin, France
- Location
- Limousin
Isn't employing young women in sales and supply been a tactic in engineering/motor trade for decades.
