Social care funding

[Hilly]

We get what the tax payers of the day pay for.
There seems to be an assumption that there's a great big savings account that we pay into and draw down with interest at time of need or reaching a certain age.
Truth is.
Since social care began. The basic health, care and pension needs of individuals has been funded by the tax payers of the day.
Any extras must of course be paid for from the individuals own assets. And rightly so.
But as eluded to above.
The advances in medicine and treatment have produced a cash cow to be milked by the unscrupulous and greedy.

Fair enough, but its very unfair when your sitting in a home paying for your self as you worked hard next to someone who pee'd everything they ever had upagaints the wall and getting the home paid for as well !

 

[caveman]

Fair enough, but its very unfair when your sitting in a home paying for your self as you worked hard next to someone who pee'd everything they ever had upagaints the wall and getting the home paid for as well !

It's a shame nobody knows the answer to that one.
Although.
You can't take your assets with you.
And your heirs would probably still be paying for them one way or the other.

 

[Hilly]

It's a shame nobody knows the answer to that one.[/QUOT

Different levels of care, no money = bread n water care.

 

[Nearly]

I don't think extra money helps, just causes more waste. I do think all families need to take more care of their own, we could learn a bit from the Indians.

Leaving the aged out on a frosty night? Just shoot me.

 

[caveman]

Thought that was the best care going in these shyster privately run care homes.
Best put every body over, say seventy, in prison.
What ain't provided can be flown in by drone.

 

[S J H]

Leaving the aged out on a frosty night? Just shoot me.

I meant that they seem to look after their own families.

 

[topground]

Thought that was the best care going in these shyster privately run care homes.
Best put every body over, say seventy, in prison.
What ain't provided can be flown in by drone.

Not sure about 70 but It occurs to me that the settling of a few scores by old bastar*s might not be such a bad idea if a 10 stretch beckons and the accomodation is better than an old people farm!

 

[Hilly]

We need voluntary euthanasia in this country for a start.

 

[Nearly]

I meant that they seem to look after their own families.

I was only teasing. I meant native American. You perhaps didn't.

 

[matthew]

I've been through this recently.
Mum was a sprightly 80 year old, but with creeping vascular dementia - unrecognised or diagnosed except by close family. She lived alone after being widowed and was 250 miles away. Then had a heart attack.
Care in the community? Rubbish. It was a disaster. And Mum still refused to move nearer to us. She resented bitterly the intrusion to her home by strangers and did everything she could to frustrate them, and me.
Finally after a nasty fall, she was diagnosed with v.dementia and as it was quite advanced, the medical profession said she was 'unsafe' to live alone. So she and the cats came down to Cornwall.
We had been paying for carers three times / day and I had been cooking her meals and freezing them - doing a 500 mile hop every month. That was hard.
We found her place locally, and i visited every two to three days - unannounced. I did all her washing and fetched / delivered that at the same time. She lasted almost three years in this care home, finally succumbing after another fall, to a cracked pelvis and hospitalisation.

After a fall in hospital, she died of peritonitis and sepsis, aged 93.

I don't know what the answer is. Medical advances, and drugs are making us all live longer, but what quality of life? Mum was sad and so very frail. Weary, she said. Even being so close to us didn't help.
And I certainly couldn't handle her 24/7 in an old place with stairs and steps everywhere.

We really don't know what's round the corner - any of us.

 

[Nell]

Only thing is, a company will find them a round of work to do not just one place. But I believe they are payed at or just above minimum wage, there's an ad for a care company on local radio at the moment offering up to £9 an hour however at lot of visits won't take an hour and own transport will have to be factored in , don't know how they work a final wage out but it won't be a lot.

Depends on the provider. A lot of care workers are on zero hours, so they tot up all the visits on the rota that week, whether it's a 15 minute or a 2 hour. They pay mileage, they may pay travel time. Places are encouraged but I don't think they're forced to. A lot won't on principal if the local authority won't cover the cost, why should the provider be out of pocket etc. The zero hours comes in because if your service user goes into hospital, the money stops as you can't invoice for visits not completed. If there's no visits for you to cover, ie sickness, holidays, then there's no work.

If you were on a 30 hour contract, and could only work 20 hours that week because of the hospital admission, you would be paid for those ten hours. The zero hours bit gets around that, so the staff member loses out there but the company is not struggling to find the ten hours they aren't going to get paid.

The girls I used to work with were working long days. The worst thing is being out from say half six until 10 am and then waiting for a couple of hours for the lunches, then another couple of hours for tea visits and then wait another couple of hours for the bed visits. I took my hat off to them as I couldn't do it and was glad I worked in the office.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Depends on the provider. A lot of care workers are on zero hours, so they tot up all the visits on the rota that week, whether it's a 15 minute or a 2 hour. They pay mileage, they may pay travel time. Places are encouraged but I don't think they're forced to. A lot won't on principal if the local authority won't cover the cost, why should the provider be out of pocket etc. The zero hours comes in because if your service user goes into hospital, the money stops as you can't invoice for visits not completed. If there's no visits for you to cover, ie sickness, holidays, then there's no work.

If you were on a 30 hour contract, and could only work 20 hours that week because of the hospital admission, you would be paid for those ten hours. The zero hours bit gets around that, so the staff member loses out there but the company is not struggling to find the ten hours they aren't going to get paid.

The girls I used to work with were working long days. The worst thing is being out from say half six until 10 am and then waiting for a couple of hours for the lunches, then another couple of hours for tea visits and then wait another couple of hours for the bed visits. I took my hat off to them as I couldn't do it and was glad I worked in the office.

Far better explained than I could, not a great wage for not an easy job.

 

[Nearly]

Someone posted before about taking control of your own budget for care. Sounds appealing on the surface.

 

[Nell]

Someone posted before about taking control of your own budget for care. Sounds appealing on the surface.

Self Direct Support. There's three or four options from memory where you get given a budget and can either organise everything yourself, have a joint venture with whoever manages it or the local authority/management organise it for you. It's not something we have a lot to do with and I don't know the ins and outs from the service users point of view. Most of the referrals I get now are through social work and I bill accordingly and then they can claw it back in care bills. I sometimes get asked about it but it's not something i know a great deal about beyond who to contact to ensure we get paid.

 

[Danllan]

My mother went into hospital yesterday, she'll probably be in for a couple more days. While waiting for the ambulance to take her I was chatting with the GP and the subject of 'resources' in the NHS came up... she, the GP, is near retirement and has a lot of hospital based experience too - and her spouse is also a medic - so has a fair overview of the service. She thinks that over 30% of the money going into the NHS is wasted on admin., pointless 'trials', reorganisation and duplication, oh yes, and on prescription dispensing charges. I've heard pretty much the same from friends and family in the NHS (Doctors and Nurses, no admin. staff) and find it astonishing.

Turning that figure around, it means that only two thirds of the money we spend is doing good and that, if the 'wasted' money were put to good use, we could have another 50% of the current capacity in addition to what we have got... for the same money currently put into it...

It beggars belief that this can be true; but, I have no reason to think that anybody I have spoken to is either ignorant of the subject or has misled me. So, and apologies for the circuitous route of getting to this answer to the original post, I would not see more money going to care, social or medical - but I would like to see a proper, no holds barred, re-evaluation of what is currently being spent and done.

 

[joe soapy]

its the money wasters, up and down the corridors of the council offices ....all departments.....that depresses me ...

Its not only the councils and other public services, the malaise is getting into the private sector too in quite a big way..
was actually quite shocked at how the self employed contributions thing was u turned. something that was going to help the sub £30000 people getting stopped by the high earning brigage.
The mechanics of doing it was beyond belief

 

[Jackson4]

My mother went into hospital yesterday, she'll probably be in for a couple more days. While waiting for the ambulance to take her I was chatting with the GP and the subject of 'resources' in the NHS came up... she, the GP, is near retirement and has a lot of hospital based experience too - and her spouse is also a medic - so has a fair overview of the service. She thinks that over 30% of the money going into the NHS is wasted on admin., pointless 'trials', reorganisation and duplication, oh yes, and on prescription dispensing charges. I've heard pretty much the same from friends and family in the NHS (Doctors and Nurses, no admin. staff) and find it astonishing.

Turning that figure around, it means that only two thirds of the money we spend is doing good and that, if the 'wasted' money were put to good use, we could have another 50% of the current capacity in addition to what we have got... for the same money currently put into it...

It beggars belief that this can be true; but, I have no reason to think that anybody I have spoken to is either ignorant of the subject or has misled me. So, and apologies for the circuitous route of getting to this answer to the original post, I would not see more money going to care, social or medical - but I would like to see a proper, no holds barred, re-evaluation of what is currently being spent and done.

Its no different from the useless duplication, written proofs etc wasted time training?? over the top (someones to blame for my stupidity) H&S training etc etc that goes on in education or policing etc.. its a sad job when the aware, wanting to make a difference worker in these professions sees all this BS and has to normalise it and become a moron in the system or leave/retire/shut up etc.

A lot off this started with new labour but whether it was about raising standards, producing non jobs for top heavy governments/employment figures, or more likely introducing the blame culture were someone other than the hand wringing MP or civil servants who could save his bacon by not falling on his/her sward etc i dont know.. just blame the person under you cause of stats, or lie its easier..but it works for all now and i dont know how it will change.

As for care its near impossible to sort out, money wont be enough, cant tell family to do it though they should sacrifice more in a more caring society. I see this with my mother and her mum who lives alone over the moor. She's a proud lass, cockney bred, father worked on the underground in the war sent her up here to live with her aunt in the bombings?? When i heard her wavering voice on the phone the other day i, well got irked, why cant she stay here, big empty 4 bed house just my mum since my dad died in 2013, i cant...blah de blah life long child parent relationships etc etc. but she's frightened the poor lass for her to talk like that?

You get.. she might fall down these stairs (why?! she has stairs.. fairly standards size step i think) i cant look after her, christ shes 94? you talk like she'll live forever... she wont like it ..what about my life, blah de blah de blah BS to do with her relationship with her and was probably the same when she 'escaped' to her plug in every room house and went out in those fashionable 80's white trousers and top with her diana type hair do etc etc holidays abroad .... then i instantly think sh*t! if i had to have my mother at ours that would be the end of it for me, aint happening, no way, she'd be hoovering the street for bits of straw, if someone was ill she'd suddenly be worse.. ooh that hurts today.. after talking to the kids like they were dogs or saying the gravy was ok, or the plate was a bit cold (dont you warm them in the oven) she or i would have past go one of us would be dead or in trouble. I dont know what the answer is. Best check my sheep.

 

[Hilly]

Thought that was the best care going in these shyster privately run care homes.
Best put every body over, say seventy, in prison.
What ain't provided can be flown in by drone.

Get beter health care and quicker health care in there, an thats not a joke.

 

[matthew]

My experience of the NHS spending is similar to that described by @Danllan. Incredible wastage.
On one of Mum's regular hospital jaunts, she was incarcerated (bed blocking) for three days. Not because there was nowhere for her to go. But because the system couldn't get its ducks lined up to organise discharge paperwork, drugs and ambulance transport at the same time. The ward sister said she had three patients (out of 12) in the same boat. So not always the fault of the receiving end.
I contacted the hospital CEO and got mother out - but without her drugs. They followed by taxi five hours later. An 80 mile round trip.

When we moved her, repeat prescription drugs filled one kitchen cupboard. Collected but not taken. Protein drinks were stacked in the pantry - not drunk. And after she died, pads, dressings, lotions and potions, left in her room by the District nurses filled a black bin bag.
Nothing could be returned to be reused, even if in date.

Another thing that irritates, is staff using the hospital post franking system for their own private use. Every year I'd get several holiday cottage enquiries in pre stamped envelopes from both NHS and Nuffield staff, asking about their own accommodation. And Christmas cards sent similarly. Using the franking machine belonging to the hospital (charity or company) in my book, is stealing.

 

[Nell]

My experience of the NHS spending is similar to that described by @Danllan. Incredible wastage.
On one of Mum's regular hospital jaunts, she was incarcerated (bed blocking) for three days. Not because there was nowhere for her to go. But because the system couldn't get its ducks lined up to organise discharge paperwork, drugs and ambulance transport at the same time. The ward sister said she had three patients (out of 12) in the same boat. So not always the fault of the receiving end.
I contacted the hospital CEO and got mother out - but without her drugs. They followed by taxi five hours later. An 80 mile round trip.

When we moved her, repeat prescription drugs filled one kitchen cupboard. Collected but not taken. Protein drinks were stacked in the pantry - not drunk. And after she died, pads, dressings, lotions and potions, left in her room by the District nurses filled a black bin bag.
Nothing could be returned to be reused, even if in date.

Another thing that irritates, is staff using the hospital post franking system for their own private use. Every year I'd get several holiday cottage enquiries in pre stamped envelopes from both NHS and Nuffield staff, asking about their own accommodation. And Christmas cards sent similarly. Using the franking machine belonging to the hospital (charity or company) in my book, is stealing.

I received a demand for postage the other week from Royal Mail. Trotted off to collect the offending item, to find it was a letter from the hospital. It was probably an honest mistake and they'd forgotten to frank it but I did look at it with wry amusement that they're strapped enough for cash they're now wanting us to pay for their postage. I could have gone down the bureaucratic route of invoicing them for £2 but I'm not that petty.

Ducks in a line - aye. They don't seem to speak each other, from what I've seen.