Stock that Suits the Farm and System

[JP1]

Why comment on something he knows nothing about then

Because (on the basis of what he's spoken about) he's been disappointed in the past? Same logic as someone saying they no longer buy a brand of machinery?

 

[JP1]

The impression I got from Mr.Salatin was that worrying about breed, pedigrees etc, fits into the "sh!t that doesn't matter" folder. Use what works on your farm and environment and do not worry about the rest. Do not try and change the environment to suit the cow, change the cow to suit its environment.

@DrWazzock, I think you are on the right track, select from the ones that work and slowly replace the ones that do not.

To a point yes although his Granddaughter now sells premium backyard chickens to wealthy dwellers and he still doesn't bother with breeding them completely pure even though you expect that might be a market requirement

 

[Henarar]

We had a cow that was so fat you couldn't see her tail head, it was fun watching the vet PD her, she got in calf and calved just the same as the thiner ones would rear a good calf with no trouble
Eventually she didn't get in calf way into her teens and although she graded fat she still came back a decent amount as she was heavy. Even the chap at the slaughter house commented on how fat she was

 

[Henarar]

Because (on the basis of what he's spoken about) he's been disappointed in the past? Same logic as someone saying they no longer buy a brand of machinery?

So he tried it couldn't make it work so now it's no good and he goes round telling everyone that
Could it be that there are just folk that are better at it
Bad workmen always blames his tools
Or a bad salesman always blames someone else's
Or both

 

[JP1]

So he tried it couldn't make it work so now it's no good and he goes round telling everyone that
Could it be that there are just folk that are better at it
Bad workmen always blames his tools
Or a bad salesman always blames someone else's
Or both

Hmm. I fancy he's been pretty successful at what he does. He has an open mind and just adopts what works for him and his farm. Have you seen his operation?

 

[Henarar]

Hmm. I fancy he's been pretty successful at what he does. He has an open mind and just adopts what works for him and his farm. Have you seen his operation?

no and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't seen mine
hence why I don't go round slagging of his animals or his way of doing things

 

[Henarar]

pedigree is only purebred with a bit of paper, the paper won't change the animal for the better but also and more important to the point it won't change the animal for the worse

you can breed pure from your own stock just the same as you can cross breed from your own stock
I wouldn't make a sweeping statement that one way is better than the other in all cases though

 

[DrWazzock]

I have every respect for pedigree breeders and the stock they produce. I have bought some pedigree stock and will continue to do so if they look like they will bring something to my herd.

But for home produced replacements I see no need to keep them pure or remain loyal to a particular breed. I think it becomes self evident which stock work for me and which don't. So they will be crosses of many different breeds that prove their worth. In fact quite a few local suckler herds have evolved this way. Buying in too many replacements rather than home producing them just seems to result in having to cull out the considerable number that don't suit my system.

 

[Henarar]

for home produced replacements I see no need to keep them pure or remain loyal to a particular breed. I think it becomes self evident which stock work for me and which don't. So they will be crosses of many different breeds that prove their worth. In fact quite a few local suckler herds have evolved this way

its just as much what you breed them to that's important for moving forward as which animals you breed from

 

[scholland]

100 cows loosing a bcs between weaning and calving, which is ideal as long as they're in good nick at weaning, is enough feed saved to put 1/2 a bcs on 800 ewes over the same period. That emphasised to me the amount of energy a cow can harvest and store over a summer.

 

[Henarar]

100 cows loosing a bcs between weaning and calving, which is ideal as long as they're in good nick at weaning, is enough feed saved to put 1/2 a bcs on 800 ewes over the same period. That emphasised to me the amount of energy a cow can harvest and store over a summer.

would you want them losing condition in the six weeks before calving ?

 

[scholland]

would you want them losing condition in the six weeks before calving ?

Gradual decline from weaning to calving is fine by me.

 

[The Ruminant]

would you want them losing condition in the six weeks before calving ?

Yes ideally. As others have said, get them to pile on the weight over the summer then keep them on straw and maybe an energised lick over the winter. The cow thins down in time for calving, the calf doesn't grow too large during those last vital weeks m, again making for an easier calving and your winter feed bill is kept as low as possible.

It's the answer to low cost suckler cow management. Trick is to not let them get too thin or lack of energy can lead to calving and calf problems.

 

[Henarar]

I wouldn't want them losing condition just before calving

 

[Danllan]

Why comment on something he knows nothing about then

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but... when has that ever stopped any of us on here?

 

[Henarar]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but... when has that ever stopped any of us on here?

quite right
but we don't charge for it

 

[Danllan]

Well, not on here anyway...

 

[TALDLONKTUP2]

Not sure what the OP is trying to say.....However, In what sense exactly is a white park cow with a painfully slow growing, inefficient, poor conformation shorthorn calf the ideal suckler for a good clover ley? There'd be something wrong if they weren't rolling fat. A pair like that should be at 2000ft eating rushes, bent and last year's heather where they belong.....And save the clover leys for decent commercial suckers with continental calves and have them gone at 550kg ish at 16 months at a premium price. What age are the shorthorn calves at slaughter weight? I bet it's damned near 3 years....If not more. I can't see the logic in that.

 

[reverand]

Sorry , my point is if the stock is getting to fat on the good going, surly you can up the size of cow or numbers of animals . A hardy ewe or cow can be a waste on good ground.
Op said the British whites are doing the best so maybe up number

 

[crofteress]

TALDLONKTUP2. a person with some sense at last , thank you .