Struggling to get or retain good staff ?

[Traffic dodger]

My mate is an employer and his view is yes it’s great to have a really top rate operator but they want top rate money. It’s better to have 2 average/ok blokes earning less money so when the top gun throws his toys out the pram and has a day off you have no work done, if you have 2 average blokes at least one of them is still working.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

not reading through all the posts but

an employer is a person that gives work to other people in return for money, if they want to keep good staff, the pay and conditions must be favorable to the employee,

an employee is a person who will work for money, and will try to find the best job suiting them in the area for pay and conditions,

either of the 2 above not happy, then they will part company,

conditions at work can play as big a part as pay in lots of cases,

and an employer as long as meeting HSE responsibilities, only need pay as much as is needed to keep good staff,

no one wants to pay more than they have to, or look after staff better than needed, but it's the value you put on your staff that's important,
shite staff that need keeping an eye on can be a liability, just the same as Good staff you can trust to work alone can be worth alot,

here is a simple test for employers, for staff that have been with you awhile, if you think about some major problem that could happen in months to come, let's say you had a heart attack and were in hospital for 4 weeks and off work for 3 months,
would you want your present staff to look after the day to day running of the business, and how good do you think they would fair,
think of the above and pay accordingly, the good ones that are looked after will stay with you, and the badly looked after ones will leave

 

[Bill the Bass]

One of the most common reasons why people leave jobs is failure of the employer to live up to their word. I left my last very well paid job because the board didn't live up to their word.

'It's a senior management development role Bill, and in 6 months we will pay you x and then in 12 months we will pay you x more as long as you meet certain standards. Standards were met and exceeded as recorded in my PDR but no pay rise'. Jam tomorrow bribery will send staff to Indeed.com quicker than anything.

In hindsight I should have played hard ball and got it written into my contract, but being the longest serving member of staff they had ever had, you would think there would be an element of trust and respect from both sides and not just mine.

'Oh yes your the boss, you call the shots - that is as long as you don't upset the finance manager, who although technically is not employed by us and is your junior and is as crooked as a nine bob note, we actually are s1t scared of her because we can't be arsed to understand the finances properly so really she's the boss, but of course legally you are accountable for the businesses compliance'.

I left for a fraction of the salary I was on and never once regretted it.

In my experience of managing teams and individuals, staff like to feel wanted and appreciated, either through training, investment in them and development or just simply being trusted to get on with things and allowed the flexibility to deal with things like personal issues that crop up without having to use up holiday etc.

Pay and physical conditions are actually quite along way down the list of reasons why people leave jobs, despite the fact that some people seem to think it no longer acceptable for staff to carry hedge tickets or work for what the market can afford to pay them.

 

[Princess Pooper]

In my experience of managing teams and individuals, staff like to feel wanted and appreciated, either through training, investment in them and development or just simply being trusted to get on with things and allowed the flexibility to deal with things like personal issues that crop up without having to use up holiday etc.

Pay and physical conditions are actually quite along way down the list of reasons why people leave jobs, despite the fact that some people seem to think it no longer acceptable for staff to carry hedge tickets or work for what the market can afford to pay them.

Yes yes and yes again

 

[Traffic dodger]

A lot of businesses treat the staff as a commodity, and wonder why the staff are only interested in the money and nothing else. This is all business not just singling out farming.

 

[student101]

If I was paying machine operator and labourers the rates you suggest are the norm , then I'd be out of business in months

"Can get" is what I said , the norm for unskilled labourers seems to be £12.00 and up , machine drivers £16.00 and up ,over 40 hours (over time) seems to be X 1.3 to X 1.5 ,paid holidays up to 28 days , weekends are often X 1.5 to X 2.00.
8-10 hour days 5 days a week are the norm as are facilities including bog , shower,clean heated eating area , locker , and PPE .
Nights out / away from home are paid for at anything between £25.00 and £80.00 per night , travelling time when away from home is usually paid at the hourly rate , mileage is negotiated if paid.

In one of my previous posts I shown where a crane driver working Sundays was being offered £37.00 ph !!! .very unusual I`m sure.

This info is from a mate who works as a 360 driver .

 

[student101]

Heres a question for ag employers , how can your staff get on the property ladder ? do you care ?

If your tractor driver is only on £9.00ph (around £19k pa) he could at best borrow £80k ,assuming he could save a deposit , not easy if he has to run a car and pay rent, how many houses in your local area are going for £80K , with odd exceptions I`d say none.
He may be boosting his income with overtime but this is not usually taken into consideration by mortgage companies.

 

[holywell farmer]

@holywell farmer is in construction industry. What's your view on rates.

Lots of jobs going driving plant up here building new bypass the awpr. The rates spoken about would be right. But many of these guys are living in caravans away from there home and families. Difficult for them to get time off. When jobs finished the contracts over and they have to find something else. Don't envy them personally. Not many local people went to work for them that I'm aware off.

Building job not too good up here either. Company that's building fathers new house have laid off large proportion of there workforce, painters, site agents, joiners. Going to be difficult for them to get other jobs before Xmas and New year.

Don't hear of many people working on farms getting laid off due to a downturn in business?

For me rates differ, some jobs I be on groundworker rate or basic labour, you really skilled trades brick layers and carpenters on are big money,,

 

[student101]

For me rates differ, some jobs I be on groundworker rate or basic labour, you really skilled trades brick layers and carpenters on are big money,,

No/low skills = crap pay in nearly all industries, but crap pay with skills is not that unusual in some areas ie nursing.

 

[Tarw Coch]

No/low skills = crap pay in nearly all industries, but crap pay with skills is not that unusual in some areas ie nursing.

How much do nurses get paid?

 

[Derky]

£25 for a machine driver ? So your telling me that a 13 tonne machine going out for £35 can be owned fuelled and maintained for £10 an hour. I best sell up and sit on a digger then.

 

[student101]

How much do nurses get paid?

Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £22,128 rising to £28,746 , you need a degree these days to become a nurse.

 

[student101]

£25 for a machine driver ? So your telling me that a 13 tonne machine going out for £35 can be owned fuelled and maintained for £10 an hour. I best sell up and sit on a digger then.

I`m not telling anyone how to run their business , just what different industries pay staff.

 

[Spud]

Heres a question for ag employers , how can your staff get on the property ladder ? do you care ?

If your tractor driver is only on £9.00ph (around £19k pa) he could at best borrow £80k ,assuming he could save a deposit , not easy if he has to run a car and pay rent, how many houses in your local area are going for £80K , with odd exceptions I`d say none.
He may be boosting his income with overtime but this is not usually taken into consideration by mortgage companies.

Of course we care (dont be silly) I'm not sure what your beef with farmers is, you seem very immature and provocative.

A tractor driver on £9/hr basic, might have an overtime rate of £11/hr. In round figures, 2000hrs of basic = £18k 1000hrs of OT @ £11.50 = £11.5k so almost £30k, minus about a quarter in deductions like tax and NI = say £22k take home.
But, he actually costs his employer more than that. 28days holiday at basic rate is another two grand. A couple of sick days, trips to the odd show or whatever (I dont begrudge any of this btw) another few hundred quid. Appropriate facilities as you think are so lacking, perhaps firewood or the odd tank of fuel etc might knock a hole in a grand a year. So he isnt just on 9 quid an hour, its more like £11/hour. For doing a job that he's doing because he enjoys it. For a varied, diverse and satisfying work life. For making a significant difference to a small business.
I've written references for staff in the past to get mortgages, and a certain proportion of overtime is definitely taken into account by many lenders.

Compare that to say a factory worker on 6/2 2/10 shifts on minimum wage doing something robotic day in day out, where you're just a number, not (say) 50% of the workforce , where your opinion and experience are respected and appreciated.

Money isn't everything to everyone, though of course its important.

Have some perspective, and wind up the farmer bashing until you've had a go at employing people yourself.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

I`m not telling anyone how to run their business , just what different industries pay staff.

Machine and operator cost £250 - £300 a day depending on size etc, I can tell you for free that 2/3rds of that cost does not go to the driver!

 

[Princess Pooper]

Heres a question for ag employers , how can your staff get on the property ladder ? do you care ?

If your tractor driver is only on £9.00ph (around £19k pa) he could at best borrow £80k ,assuming he could save a deposit , not easy if he has to run a car and pay rent, how many houses in your local area are going for £80K , with odd exceptions I`d say none.
He may be boosting his income with overtime but this is not usually taken into consideration by mortgage companies.

Why is that unique to farming? You point out yourself that nurses are not well paid. National median full time gross earnings (ie including overtime, which would be added to your £19,000) are £28,800, that includes people in their 50's at the peak of their careers and those who have just left education.

Certainly not all, but many farm workers do get free or subsidised accommodation which enables them to save without paying rent. The expectation to be able to buy a house (now in reversal) is a recent thing - my parents could not afford to buy their first house until they were in their 40's. I didn't buy my first house (2 up 2 down) until I was nearly 30 and it was furnished entirely with second hand furniture - something that youngsters would sniff at nowadays.

 

[hindmaist]

I can't think of any tractor drivers who don't live in a nice house and drive a decent motor.

 

[student101]

Of course we care (dont be silly) I'm not sure what your beef with farmers is, you seem very immature and provocative.

A tractor driver on £9/hr basic, might have an overtime rate of £11/hr. In round figures, 2000hrs of basic = £18k 1000hrs of OT @ £11.50 = £11.5k so almost £30k, minus about a quarter in deductions like tax and NI = say £22k take home.
But, he actually costs his employer more than that. 28days holiday at basic rate is another two grand. A couple of sick days, trips to the odd show or whatever (I dont begrudge any of this btw) another few hundred quid. Appropriate facilities as you think are so lacking, perhaps firewood or the odd tank of fuel etc might knock a hole in a grand a year. So he isnt just on 9 quid an hour, its more like £11/hour. For doing a job that he's doing because he enjoys it. For a varied, diverse and satisfying work life. For making a significant difference to a small business.
I've written references for staff in the past to get mortgages, and a certain proportion of overtime is definitely taken into account by many lenders.

Compare that to say a factory worker on 6/2 2/10 shifts on minimum wage doing something robotic day in day out, where you're just a number, not (say) 50% of the workforce , where your opinion and experience are respected and appreciated.

Money isn't everything to everyone, though of course its important.

Have some perspective, and wind up the farmer bashing until you've had a go at employing people yourself.

Good response , I`m not farmer bashing , just being provocative to get a response , playing devils advocate in many cases .

Re Mortgages , Different lenders assess overtime in different ways. Some will allow 50% of regular, some allow 100%, others will take none of it into account, all the perks of an ag worker do of course help daily life but parasitic banks have no interest in them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/will-mortgage-lenders-accept-income/

 

[Gapples]

Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £22,128 rising to £28,746 , you need a degree these days to become a nurse.

Add to that night & weekend increments, 37 days a year holiday, 6 month fully paid sick followed by 6 month half pay. Plus of course index linked pensions.
It's not so much nurses are under paid, they are over worked ( way under staffed ) & that's what's pi$$ing them off mainly.

 

[holywell farmer]

No/low skills = crap pay in nearly all industries, but crap pay with skills is not that unusual in some areas ie nursing.

Well wages for bin man are average