Stupid question about sheep no. 34467

[Pasty]

Right. So I've bought these ewe lambs, Jacob and Wilts and very pleased I am with them. Thanks to some kind advice on here and a lick bucket, the Wilts have perked up and the Jacobs are as feisty as ever. I realise these are not 'commercial' breeds in the normal sense but as I plan a low input system with a 'story' on my small farm, they may suit a bit better. Not to say I won't try something else in time.

Question: When do most ewe lambs go to the tup? In year 1? I've been advised to keep mine until they are past a year and that's fine for the mo as I don't want lambing this spring. But do most people put 'commercial' mules etc. to the tup in year 1?

 

[Jerry]

I'll tup my lambs if they get to 42 kg in time. That's lleyn ewe lambs so not a big breed.

Tupping in sept for Feb lambing.

Lambs need a little more care managing them to keep them growing to reach full size by next tupping but an extra crop of lambs is worth it and they make better mums.

 

[Wooly]

A little late to lamb them this spring now.......gestation time is 5 months.

 

[Old Tip]

Simples, too late to tup them this year really so you've answered your own question, tup them next september and all will be fine

 

[Pasty]

No, sorry, not talking about this year or my sheep. No intention of tupping them at all and I want late lambing 2018 (I think). Just wondering if it's standard practice to put early born ewes to the tup in year 1.

 

[Ysgythan]

Right. So I've bought these ewe lambs, Jacob and Wilts and very pleased I am with them. Thanks to some kind advice on here and a lick bucket, the Wilts have perked up and the Jacobs are as feisty as ever. I realise these are not 'commercial' breeds in the normal sense but as I plan a low input system with a 'story' on my small farm, they may suit a bit better. Not to say I won't try something else in time.

Question: When do most ewe lambs go to the tup? In year 1? I've been advised to keep mine until they are past a year and that's fine for the mo as I don't want lambing this spring. But do most people put 'commercial' mules etc. to the tup in year 1?

Two schools of thought:
1 don't carry anything that can breed without breeding as it knocks productivity.
2 the extra year growing pays in the long run as growth is not compromised and they last longer.

Can't say either is wrong, depends on your circumstances. In yours I would leave them free of the tup.

 

[bovine]

2 the extra year growing pays in the long run as growth is not compromised and they last longer.

We know that to be the complete opposite in dairy cows. I suspect if you lamb early enough and feed the well enough so they are properly grown, then you can lamb at a year old with no problems. Get more productivity out of the sheep.

 

[hindmaist]

No, sorry, not talking about this year or my sheep. No intention of tupping them at all and I want late lambing 2018 (I think). Just wondering if it's standard practice to put early born ewes to the tup in year 1.

Its standard practice to to tup hill sheep when they're atleast 18 months old.It used to be common to run them a further year as maiden gimmers before first tupping them at thirty months old,especially on hard places,but I suspect that's rare now.
In low ground flocks tupping ewe lambs is common and seems to be growing in popularity.I think the majority would still be tupped as gimmers,but I'm not sure.

 

[Global ovine]

Two schools of thought:
1 don't carry anything that can breed without breeding as it knocks productivity.
2 the extra year growing pays in the long run as growth is not compromised and they last longer.

Can't say either is wrong, depends on your circumstances. In yours I would leave them free of the tup.

From my experience; any breed of sheep that is lambed around its first birthday must be at least two thirds of its mature body weight at tupping. If its 1st mating weight is too low, it becomes too great a challenge to feed both dam and lamb(s) to achieve saleable/acceptable weights for commercial purposes or future productivity in the case of the dam.
My work on this subject (about forty years ago) revealed that if a mob of hoggets could not reach their normal 2 tooth mating weight by a greater margin of 5 kgs, that mob of ewes would under perform for the rest of their lives costing the farmer more than what the worth of the crop of lambs taken during the hogget year. Mature ewes compromised by poor hogget rearing affects their lifetime performance.
There has been no research in NZ (hogget lambing widespread in stronger pasture growth regions) showing a reduction in ewe longevity, unless the farmer is conscientiously trying to get rid of smaller ewes by culling such.

My advice to @Pasty is mate any breed of hogget if at least two thirds of her accepted adult body weight. But feed them better than ewes especially in the 1st trimester to keep lamb birth size down (the opposite to mature ewes) and maintain BCS at all cost until the lambs are weaned.
Sheep have a great ability to breed, but it is up to the farmer to feed them. Think pasture quality before quantity.

 

[GTB]

From my experience; any breed of sheep that is lambed around its first birthday must be at least two thirds of its mature body weight at tupping. If its 1st mating weight is too low, it becomes too great a challenge to feed both dam and lamb(s) to achieve saleable/acceptable weights for commercial purposes or future productivity in the case of the dam.
My work on this subject (about forty years ago) revealed that if a mob of hoggets could not reach their normal 2 tooth mating weight by a greater margin of 5 kgs, that mob of ewes would under perform for the rest of their lives costing the farmer more than what the worth of the crop of lambs taken during the hogget year. Mature ewes compromised by poor hogget rearing affects their lifetime performance.
There has been no research in NZ (hogget lambing widespread in stronger pasture growth regions) showing a reduction in ewe longevity, unless the farmer is conscientiously trying to get rid of smaller ewes by culling such.

My advice to @Pasty is mate any breed of hogget if at least two thirds of her accepted adult body weight. But feed them better than ewes especially in the 1st trimester to keep lamb birth size down (the opposite to mature ewes) and maintain BCS at all cost until the lambs are weaned.
Sheep have a great ability to breed, but it is up to the farmer to feed them. Think pasture quality before quantity.

Or to turn that on it's head, whatever weight your ewe lambs are at tupping will be two thirds of their adult weight. If you tup small 30kg lambs they'll never get much bigger than 45kg as adults.

 

[Global ovine]

Or to turn that on it's head, whatever weight your ewe lambs are at tupping will be two thirds of their adult weight. If you tup small 30kg lambs they'll never get much bigger than 45kg as adults.

If no extra effort goes into feeding them.

 

[Ysgythan]

Sheep have a great ability to breed, but it is up to the farmer to feed them. Think pasture quality before quantity.

Nail on the head for me.

 

[JohnGalway]

Right. So I've bought these ewe lambs, Jacob and Wilts and very pleased I am with them. Thanks to some kind advice on here and a lick bucket, the Wilts have perked up and the Jacobs are as feisty as ever. I realise these are not 'commercial' breeds in the normal sense but as I plan a low input system with a 'story' on my small farm, they may suit a bit better. Not to say I won't try something else in time.

Question: When do most ewe lambs go to the tup? In year 1? I've been advised to keep mine until they are past a year and that's fine for the mo as I don't want lambing this spring. But do most people put 'commercial' mules etc. to the tup in year 1?

60% of their expected adult weight is the easy way to remember. A lot go on KG, but that will differ as 60% weight of an adult hill ewe will differ considerably from that of most lowland ewes. I went for 66%, to give them that little extra weight at tipping time.

 

[JohnGalway]

It used to be common to run them a further year as maiden gimmers before first tupping them at thirty months old,especially on hard places,but I suspect that's rare now.

A lot would still do that not so farm from me, particularly when you get into the mountains.

 

[Tim W]

20+ years with wilts tells me that the ewe lambs are slow to mature sexually
A lower %age tend to breed than other types of ewe lamb

I am successfully tupping my ewe lambs at about 55% of adult weight as long as I keep grass ahead of them throughout pregnancy

 

[neilo]

I have spoken to quite a few sheep farming visitors from various countries around the world, mostly through my pedigree flock. I can't think of one that hasn't thought it odd that we in the UK don't generally breed from our ewe lambs. Most will put them to the tup and cull any that don't conceive, high value pedigree or not.

IMO they should all be earning their keep and, IME, it most definitely does not effect their longevity. Depends if you want the extra work I guess, or if you can achieve a premium for selling them as (fat) well grown shearlings, in which case that would be a financial consideration as much as the value of the extra lamb crop.

 

[Ysgythan]

There's UK work on the longevity point, I'll have to try and find it.

 

[Tim W]

There is a fairly recent look at the longevity vs breeding as ewe lambs argument and I think it concludes something like this ---breeding as ewe lambs may well reduce the subsequent overall lifespan of a ewe but it doesn't effect the lifetime productivity

In other words if you breed them young you get the lambs earlier in their lifetime and do away with keeping them for a year without getting a return

 

[hindmaist]

If you're going to tup ewe lambs,you have to keep them separate from the rest of the flock in order to ensure correct nutrition.

 

[Ysgythan]

There is a fairly recent look at the longevity vs breeding as ewe lambs argument and I think it concludes something like this ---breeding as ewe lambs may well reduce the subsequent overall lifespan of a ewe but it doesn't effect the lifetime productivity

In other words if you breed them young you get the lambs earlier in their lifetime and do away with keeping them for a year without getting a return

Aye, but the lambs from mature ewes will be better than hoggs lambs and there will be much more breeding value to those females if you keep your own replacements or sell breeding females. Breeding from hoggs lambs as lambs is a recipe for miniatures...