T1

[Trigger Happy]

But what good would the chlormequat do? Why are you putting it in? Will the crop fall over without it?

Only if the crop is under real stress would I drop the growth reg, yes reduce the rate by all means. I had a very clever agronomist a few
years ago, really dry spring, the weather has done the job he said , don't worry he said.
Rain eventually came, bloody wheat was the tallest I had ever seen and you guessed it , all flat!

Yes its dry but potential still there so a sniff of moddus and chlormequat as normal going in here, flat wheat is not an option.

 

[B'o'B]

Only if the crop is under real stress would I drop the growth reg, yes reduce the rate by all means. I had a very clever agronomist a few
years ago, really dry spring, the weather has done the job he said , don't worry he said.
Rain eventually came, bloody wheat was the tallest I had ever seen and you guessed it , all flat!

Yes its dry but potential still there so a sniff of moddus and chlormequat as normal going in here, flat wheat is not an option.

If that is what you normally do, then fine, we only use PGRs as the exception. Seed rates, drilling date, N timings and rates along with yield potential all need to be accounted for when making the decision.

 

[Brisel]

But what good would the chlormequat do? Why are you putting it in? Will the crop fall over without it?

Reduce apical dominance, strengthen the stem base. Chlormequat has other uses. I put 2 litres of 3C & 2 doses of Moddus on my Siskin last year & despite the drought some of it still went flat. It is not as harsh on wheat as Moddus and frankly is cheap insurance. I'm with Ollie on this one.

I think it's a bit early to be pulling out of spending on crops even if they are looking a bit unhappy. I'll bet there's latent septoria brewing away inside the leaves in much of the country too. Remember 2001? Horrid year. F&M. Long dry spring after a late sowing autumn so many growers stopped applying fungicides. In late May lots of leaf area died as lesions appeared from nowhere. Awful yields. The lesson learned was whilst cutting back a bit might be appropriate in the conditions, stopping means you fall at the last hurdle.

 

[B'o'B]

Reduce apical dominance, strengthen the stem base. Chlormequat has other uses. I put 2 litres of 3C & 2 doses of Moddus on my Siskin last year & despite the drought some of it still went flat. It is not as harsh on wheat as Moddus and frankly is cheap insurance. I'm with Ollie on this one.

I think it's a bit early to be pulling out of spending on crops even if they are looking a bit unhappy. I'll bet there's latent septoria brewing away inside the leaves in much of the country too. Remember 2001? Horrid year. F&M. Long dry spring after a late sowing autumn so many growers stopped applying fungicides. In late May lots of leaf area died as lesions appeared from nowhere. Awful yields. The lesson learned was whilst cutting back a bit might be appropriate in the conditions, stopping means you fall at the last hurdle.

You have had more rain. I’m not advocating stopping spending, but if farm history shows that in all but exceptional years there is little need for PGRs then this year is not going to be one of those years they are needed. I have kept the last 40-50kg of N back as without water it will not be used by the plants anyway. PGRs are top of the list to do without here.

 

[shakerator]

If that is what you normally do, then fine, we only use PGRs as the exception. Seed rates, drilling date, N timings and rates along with yield potential all need to be accounted for when making the decision.

Nothing wrong with pushing back the decision to T2 and taking stock then

I have canopy in shed as crops high biomass but want rain forecast to apply with confidence. Drought and pgr scorch not fun

 

[yellow belly]

Farming in the wetter south west is a different ball game compared to east of the m 1
When it is wet we need to keep crops standing but in a dry time getting nitrogen into the crop is harder especially on less deep soils

 

[Brisel]

You have had more rain. I’m not advocating stopping spending, but if farm history shows that in all but exceptional years there is little need for PGRs then this year is not going to be one of those years they are needed. I have kept the last 40-50kg of N back as without water it will not be used by the plants anyway. PGRs are top of the list to do without here.

I saw dry looking crops a couple of weeks ago when I was up on the Wolds. I say again, how much harm will a litre of chlormequat do? Yes, my climate is wetter so the need for some kind of pgr is more consistent. I certainly wouldn't do Moddus, Terpal, Cerone or Canopy when crops are under stress.

 

[Zippy768]

I saw dry looking crops a couple of weeks ago when I was up on the Wolds. I say again, how much harm will a litre of chlormequat do? Yes, my climate is wetter so the need for some kind of pgr is more consistent. I certainly wouldn't do Moddus, Terpal, Cerone or Canopy when crops are under stress.

How would one measure stress? Certainly look full of health around here.
Does 3/4 days 22ish degrees represent a problem? I know we had rain last week and likely be more unsettled after mon

 

[B'o'B]

I saw dry looking crops a couple of weeks ago when I was up on the Wolds. I say again, how much harm will a litre of chlormequat do? Yes, my climate is wetter so the need for some kind of pgr is more consistent. I certainly wouldn't do Moddus, Terpal, Cerone or Canopy when crops are under stress.

And I say again what good would it do?!
Why reduce apical dominance if it doesn’t actually increase yield in the field? Because the data doesn’t seem to show that it does. Is it one of those things that sounds like it should be technically the right thing to do but in reality it is pretty inconclusive that it improves on field yields?

 

[ollie989898]

If you want a ring-tightening experience, the decision to apply cerone and terpal to a crop in a hot dry summer is it!!!

Fudge that, 3C and moddus if necessary earlier on. It's kinder to the crop and I am convinced is a better approach. It is also considerably cheaper.

A floppy crop come the end of June is AOK by me and I used to chance it a lot when it was going for wholecrop, but you wait until the end of July when the crop starts to go off and you get a thunderstorm or high winds. The second the crop is no longer fully green it will go over and you will curse.

 

[ollie989898]

But what good would the chlormequat do? Why are you putting it in? Will the crop fall over without it?

I have no idea if a crop will fall over or not. I have risked several crops with no PGR before, by the T3 stage they are wavy and floppy as fudge, I've warned people before not to do it, but if they want to save the paltry amount per acre a PGR costs that is up to them.

These early PGRs even up the crop and make all the tillers the same generally. I actually believe they enhance yield rather than detract from it unless you are very heavy handed. I regard 3C as something as ubiquitous as CTL- cheap insurance and I would need a good reason to completely omit it.

Moddus is a different story, but I believe even moddus is a lot kinder (and cheaper) than using the alternatives at a later growth stage unless you are heavy handed.

Of course nitrogen is a big PGR itself. Chuck a lot of it around and you will be needing PGR at T0, T1 and around T2 if not later... Gets expensive fast.

 

[jonnyjon]

Seeing plenty of scorch in crops that had moddus applied in the recent hash weather, sown tramlines burnt like they been round-uped. W barley showing scorch in a field that had w oat spay + 3c , another field sprayed the same day without axial pro has no scorch

 

[Brisel]

And I say again what good would it do?!
Why reduce apical dominance if it doesn’t actually increase yield in the field? Because the data doesn’t seem to show that it does. Is it one of those things that sounds like it should be technically the right thing to do but in reality it is pretty inconclusive that it improves on field yields?

Apical dominance messes with your fungicide timings. Better to have all your critical yield building leaves out at the same time, not the main stem one leaf ahead of the other 8 tillers. I get what you're saying. You have a low lodging risk and you don't want to cause any more stress than possible. You're asking the right questions for Integrated Crop Management.

I'm just saying "you're going through anyway, chuck it in for <£2/ha and a low risk of any further crop damage in case we get a biblical lodging year starting next week."

 

[APJ]

Flat wheat is not fun and not profitable, all our wheat has had some ccc and will have ccc and modus at t1 very fertile ground and plenty of muck under them we never miss a pgr, it’s not to droughty here on the Shropshire/Powys borders, plenty of moisture 10days ago to keep things moving.

 

[snarling bee]

Insurance Insurance Insurance

 

[snarling bee]

Gates and cheque book is shut here until harvest unless we start getting significant rain very soon

Excepting rust and aphids??
I would have thought with your organic matter your soils would be holding up. Its still April.

 

[ajd132]

I have no idea if a crop will fall over or not. I have risked several crops with no PGR before, by the T3 stage they are wavy and floppy as fudge, I've warned people before not to do it, but if they want to save the paltry amount per acre a PGR costs that is up to them.

These early PGRs even up the crop and make all the tillers the same generally. I actually believe they enhance yield rather than detract from it unless you are very heavy handed. I regard 3C as something as ubiquitous as CTL- cheap insurance and I would need a good reason to completely omit it.

Moddus is a different story, but I believe even moddus is a lot kinder (and cheaper) than using the alternatives at a later growth stage unless you are heavy handed.

Of course nitrogen is a big PGR itself. Chuck a lot of it around and you will be needing PGR at T0, T1 and around T2 if not later... Gets expensive fast.

Ccc for us is probably the only thing set on stone for spring spraying. Everything else including Ctl is manouverable depending on conditions

 

[Clive]

Excepting rust and aphids??
I would have thought with your organic matter your soils would be holding up. Its still April.

Organic matter or not it’s still light and very dry - I expect it’s helping a bit though maybe

Crops look ok and if we get rain soon things will be fine and we will start managing to suit but if no rain in the next week / 10 days then it will be too late and as I say gate will be shut on everything until harvest

Rust rarely an issue here and aphids certainly not, it’s many years since we last used an insecticide

 

[T Hectares]

L3 about half out here, Ctl went on 9 days ago, not expecting L3 to be fully emerged for another week.

L4 & 3 are massive so far, think potential here on the Chalk is looking good at this stage...

 

[shakerator]

Crops will soon be needing 3-5mm a day to retain growth. We are miles behind in terms of deep soil moisture deficit so statistically you have to say the chances of significant moisture stress this season are 80-90%. Of course you could just say the weather always pays its debt, but perhaps not in time for yield ....