Tariffs

[Tealo]

The coal and steel industries were going to be mullered no matter what, Thatcher just sped up what was going to happen anyway.

UK doesn't use that much coal these days, most of the power stations were switched to gas generation by Tony Blair and the steel industry was archaic. Same thing happened in Germany, France etc. Today the UK makes a smaller volume of more specialist steel.

Even the big coal producing countries do so with a lot less labour than before. In places like Canada/Australia, they can surface mine and produce thousands of tonnes with very small crew. Automated mining has taken off in a big way as well to make it safer and more productive for the guys underground.

Steel too, is has become a lot less labour intensive.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't of looked after our primary industries just what we have done.

We can let all the other countries make the money and borrow it off them, that seems to be working.

 

[Tealo]

Why would a country control supermarkets? They are private businesses aren't they?

They are a private businesses they could also be discibed as a cartel.

 

[Brisel]

Why do you think farmers are owed a living, any more than the coal miners, steelworkers, etc?

They were all subsidised too, along with good deals for employers wanting to relocate to areas of high unemployment. Nissan at Sunderland, Hotpoint in S Wales, it's a long list.

 

[Two Tone]

Why do you think farmers are owed a living, any more than the coal miners, steelworkers, etc?

Because they cant mine coal or make steel without eating food.

 

[le bon paysan]

I'm just trying to see an answer to a problem, the UK can't continue to produce food at UK input prices for World produce prices.

Tariffs seem the best idea so far but I'm probably wrong.

Uk farmers were used to competing on a level playing field against Ireland and France
Now you're going up against America, Brazil etc.

I don't think many uk farmers are relishing the prospect, no matter what they say on here.

 

[Two Tone]

Uk farmers were used to competing on a level playing field against Ireland and France
Now you're going up against America, Brazil etc.

I don't think many uk farmers are relishing the prospect, no matter what they say on here.

Oooh!
One thing that is for sure: There never was a level playing field!
Or such a thing as the Common Agricultural Policy!
Hence you moved to a place where “Some are more Equal than others”. And who could have blamed you for that?

Now, for us, there might be more of a level playing field.

 

[farmerm]

I'm just trying to see an answer to a problem, the UK can't continue to produce food at UK input prices for World produce prices.

Tariffs seem the best idea so far but I'm probably wrong.

Unlike you or I, I think if fair to say that the majority of MPs in parliament, and a fair proportion of the British public, don't really care if UK farmers continue to produce food or not. The thinking seems to be that free trade offers cheap food for voting consumers and new export opportunities of products with greater economic value. UK farmers are going to have to figure out what it takes to survive producing at world market values and will far less government support.

 

[le bon paysan]

Oooh!
One thing that is for sure: There never was a level playing field!
Or such a thing as the Common Agricultural Policy!
Hence you moved to a place where “Some are more Equal than others”. And who could have blamed you for that?

Now, for us, there might be more of a level playing field.

The main problem was the goldplating by your ministry. I can't see them getting rid of the jobs for the boys.
Britain never got as much out of the CAP but this is also the main reason you used to get the rebate. Large or small, I think you are underestimating the challenges uk agriculture will face with politicians not willing to protect you.

 

[Tealo]

I can't see the grand idea of making food cheap so the public has more free money to spend on crap they don't need.
Most of the crap also imported so we don't as a nation make much out of that either.
Environmentally it's also one big balls up.

 

[Highland Mule]

St

I can't see the grand idea of making food cheap so the public has more free money to spend on crap they don't need.
Most of the crap also imported so we don't as a nation make much out of that either.
Environmentally it's also one big balls up.

Which country was you main car made in? Your tractor? Fertiliser spreader? Fertiliser? The device you’re posting these messages from? If you’re going to deny the British public the better quality foodstuff that’s produced abroad, you’d better make sure your own house is in order first.

 

[Brisel]

They are a private businesses they could also be discibed as a cartel.

More of an oligopoly

 

[ollie989898]

I can't see the grand idea of making food cheap so the public has more free money to spend on crap they don't need.
Most of the crap also imported so we don't as a nation make much out of that either.
Environmentally it's also one big balls up.

I disagree. A country, business or individual can make big money out of Chinese manufacturers.

Do you honestly think would Apple have their products assembled in China unless it meant more money for them? They are a very large company and could have chosen to have their products assembled anywhere in the world. Anywhere. They chose China because there is lots of skilled labour, lots of space and the infrastructure would be provided for them if it did not already exist.

Having Iphones made in America would have probably made Apple less money. They designed the thing, they own the IP. They are also in charge of where it is sold and for what money. They are making money at both ends of the chain but paying someone else to do the assembly part in the middle.

Don't you see? They outsourced the least profitable part of their supply chain.

 

[kiwi pom]

I can't see the grand idea of making food cheap so the public has more free money to spend on crap they don't need.
Most of the crap also imported so we don't as a nation make much out of that either.
Environmentally it's also one big balls up.

Are farmers not "public" too? Many spend just as much money on "crap they don't need" and go on foreign holidays all the time too, perhaps even more so as many don't seem short of money.
Buying local is fine but it does limit you and people want more choice, be it imported out of season fruit, I phones, German tractors, cheap fertiliser or (oddly) Australian work boots.
It's a big world and transport is becoming more efficient and environmentally friendly. As land use becomes more important it may be that it's better to stop farming some of it if it doesn't stack up financially or environmentally, use it for something else and bring food in from somewhere that is better suited.

 

[neilo]

Because they cant mine coal or make steel without eating food.

But like coal & steel, if it can be imported more cheaply than it’s produced here, then why do we need to produce it here?

It works for Singapore apparently...

 

[kiwi pom]

Uk farmers were used to competing on a level playing field against Ireland and France
Now you're going up against America, Brazil etc.

I don't think many uk farmers are relishing the prospect, no matter what they say on here.

Are France and Ireland a level playing field?
Brazil might benefit from cheap labour and some dodgy practices but if France and Ireland are level with the UK I'd say America is too? Along with the rest of Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ and probably many more.

I bet many farmers wish Ireland and France would bugger off along with all the other countries that import stuff to the UK.

 

[Tealo]

St


Which country was you main car made in? Your tractor? Fertiliser spreader? Fertiliser? The device you’re posting these messages from? If you’re going to deny the British public the better quality foodstuff that’s produced abroad, you’d better make sure your own house is in order first.

I'd like to buy everything homegrown/produced but as the way of the farming sector the government doesn't mind if it's all been sent abroad.

 

[Tealo]

Are farmers not "public" too? Many spend just as much money on "crap they don't need" and go on foreign holidays all the time too, perhaps even more so as many don't seem short of money.
Buying local is fine but it does limit you and people want more choice, be it imported out of season fruit, I phones, German tractors, cheap fertiliser or (oddly) Australian work boots.
It's a big world and transport is becoming more efficient and environmentally friendly. As land use becomes more important it may be that it's better to stop farming some of it if it doesn't stack up financially or environmentally, use it for something else and bring food in from somewhere that is better suited.

There is a big difference between food which has not moved in value in the last 20 years yet everything else has, I don't really know why that is. People use to have to set a large percentage of there wages on food but now?

 

[Tealo]

It's a big world and transport is becoming more efficient and environmentally friendly

As far as I know boats don't have to comply to euro 6 emissions and keeping a big lump of metal in the sky relies on a ridiculous amount of energy.

 

[Ashtree]

Are France and Ireland a level playing field?
Brazil might benefit from cheap labour and some dodgy practices but if France and Ireland are level with the UK I'd say America is too? Along with the rest of Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ and probably many more.

I bet many farmers wish Ireland and France would bugger off along with all the other countries that import stuff to the UK.

Ah the Brexiteer farmers in here, whinge and whine from cock crow to dusk, about the very unlevel playing field WITHIN the EU. They believe the whole of the EU is stacked against them, that they alone produce food and comply with regulations, whilst everybody else does what they like. They like to gripe ad nauseam about pig stalls. They like to pontificate about horsegate as being an Irish thing alone, even though it was the Irish authorities who uncovered it, and blew the cover off it, right throughout EU including UK.
They don’t bring up BSE though....

Hells bells, they can’t cope with Paddy and a few Frogs, but they are stepping into the ring with the Argies and the Brazilians ...... makes you wonder what goes on inside their heads ... don’t it!!!!

 

[kiwi pom]

As far as I know boats don't have to comply to euro 6 emissions and keeping a big lump of metal in the sky relies on a ridiculous amount of energy.

Ships can move huge quantities of goods very cheaply and as I said before transport is becoming more efficient and environmentally friendly, even planes and much of their freight goes in the cargo hold of passenger flights.
You're not going to stop global trade, no matter how much you disagree with it.
Without it and the money and jobs it provides, no one would be able to buy food.

If you could sell everything you produce for double the price to another country, would you be so bothered about it?