Tenant farming costs, complete newbie basic questions

[Coximus]

Watching this thread with interest! I am at the other end of the spectrum. I am over eighty and have farmed my own place for the last 40 years. Probably what many on here would call a hobby farmer as I bought the house and land very cheaply (£25,000) in the early 80s primarily for dog training and was told I had paid too much for it! My place before that had a two bedroomed house, range of buildings, and 8.5 acres for which I paid £3,000, so I suppose I did!

Then I had to decide what to do with 25 acres of grass. So I've kept sheep, cattle, pigs, chickens, Highland ponies, etc. and a lot of dogs. I also have all the machinery -- 2 tractors, Welger small baler, sheds, and stables, etc. I do have a degree in land management. The land flooded which I corrected, put up 3 miles of fencing (yes, on 25 acres!), and I know the few docks and thistles by their first names. I am always complimented on the state of the place.

One thing I do have which is less desirable is old age. I have tried to let the place, but either get offers from non-starters (remember Alpaca Rescue?) or those expecting stupidity to come with age. There is meant to be some scheme to marry people like me up with young hopefuls (sounds like something the SNFU would do -- badly) looking for a start in farming but never even got a reply.

The local auctioneers say my land should be worth £60 - £100/acre/364 days grazing licence. I answered a 'wanted' ad and was offered £50/acre. I counter offered £65 and the offeror disappeared. I am just about to advertise but will probably get more alpaca rescuers as wouldbe farmers seem to lack initiative, unlike the OP.

So there should be possibilities out there. Possibly some like me reading this. Sadly, I don't suffer fools gladly so that rules a lot out. Meantime, I have made this place my own little piece of heaven and if necessary I will re-wild the lot and let the caravan to Mr Fallowfield (remember him?) to liven things up and keep my brain working.

Interesting - I considered moving north a while back as land is cheaper and the culure is more realistic I find in more remote areas (im adjacent to leeds - que alot of people with little sense whos career options were daddys money)

The killer for me was land rents - Speaking to My last Agronomist who came from Caithness - he said the challenge was the milage - good ground can be 20 to 30 miles away with alot of rough inbetween - the fuel cost quickly eats into the margin that can be paid as rent - and if your nearest neighbours dont want the land, every 10 miles further away takes £10 an acre rent of the value - similar in yorkshire - As you move from the livestock areas west of wetherby out into the vale of york - Short term rents drop quickly as theirs few and fewer local stock people and the distance they ( and I) need to travel adds cost - Its economics sadly - my Best ground is my cheapest because its an arable field being rested for 3 years due to rye and black grass problems. (£25an acre) yet my most expensive ground at £110 is 900ft higher, rush filled and low yeilding, but its in a large block and within 2 miles I have 3 other blocks all 40ac + so it adds up as theirs no additional travel time and little labour time to manage it.

Im a young new entrant and I find once you get a reputation for being good at paying and leaving land better than you found it, I cant keep up with offers - Not to be rude but I often forget to get back to people who counter offer wanting more rent - I only have so many sheep I can keep and when someone comes back wanting more, sometimes I just dont have time to get into a discussion when a mile down the road someone offers some arable for £25 for 7 months to clean up and the same price gets me 5year FBT land closer to home.

 

[James691]

I did look at Scotland and had a contract offer in Fife on a very large estate. But he wanted just one type of livestock on the land. He also advised that there was an issue with Scottish land rent as the FM wanted tenants to have the right to buy. So a great deal of reluctance for FBT. Rather a contract of taking X amount of profit share and no contract on the land. There was also the logistics for my own circumstances. I also looked at Crown Estates Scotland but after chasing up, was advised that you're on a list and when something comes up you can apply. No time frame was given.

So I went for the "word of mouth" introduction with farmers. I would work on farms for free, show a good attitude. I'd stop and help a farmer on a country lane with traffic control and get chatting, leaving my details and explaining my issues of getting a "wellie in the field". In the end I was called one evening that a farmer friend of a farmer may be interested in my idea. A call and chat lead to an in formal meeting, that means I now have a field.

I now have a friend and a mentor in the game who is listening for anything going for sale or rent at a price that is right, based on 4 generations of farming the area. Rather than a newbie turning up with a cheque book.

Other farmers have come over to see what I'm doing and I'm sure it's entertaining for them, as they lean on the drystone wall with a mixture of frowns and confused smiles. I've gotten invaluable information on the inside workings of the business end too.

My folks and herds will be very small on the first run, this limits any financial risk and or being stuck with stock as I build up contacts. But it is glorious fun to be out in a field with a coffee and a dream.

 

[James691]

Setting up the Salatin style chicken tractor, this can hold up to 75 meat chickens each. Forgive the bandanna! I burnt my head the day before

 

[unlacedgecko]

I did look at Scotland and had a contract offer in Fife on a very large estate. But he wanted just one type of livestock on the land. He also advised that there was an issue with Scottish land rent as the FM wanted tenants to have the right to buy. So a great deal of reluctance for FBT. Rather a contract of taking X amount of profit share and no contract on the land. There was also the logistics for my own circumstances. I also looked at Crown Estates Scotland but after chasing up, was advised that you're on a list and when something comes up you can apply. No time frame was given.

So I went for the "word of mouth" introduction with farmers. I would work on farms for free, show a good attitude. I'd stop and help a farmer on a country lane with traffic control and get chatting, leaving my details and explaining my issues of getting a "wellie in the field". In the end I was called one evening that a farmer friend of a farmer may be interested in my idea. A call and chat lead to an in formal meeting, that means I now have a field.

I now have a friend and a mentor in the game who is listening for anything going for sale or rent at a price that is right, based on 4 generations of farming the area. Rather than a newbie turning up with a cheque book.

Other farmers have come over to see what I'm doing and I'm sure it's entertaining for them, as they lean on the drystone wall with a mixture of frowns and confused smiles. I've gotten invaluable information on the inside workings of the business end too.

My folks and herds will be very small on the first run, this limits any financial risk and or being stuck with stock as I build up contacts. But it is glorious fun to be out in a field with a coffee and a dream.

Who was the estate?

 

[James691]

Ohhh never name, names
It could drop a chap in the manure and get you a reputation as a tattle tail.

There is an estate of about 3000 Ha in southern England that runs sort of self employed deals on their estate, again where you pay a portion of your profits and or work in a barter system with other self employed enterprises on the estate.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Ohhh never name, names
It could drop a chap in the manure and get you a reputation as a tattle tail.

There is an estate of about 3000 Ha in southern England that runs sort of self employed deals on their estate, again where you pay a portion of your profits and or work in a barter system with other self employed enterprises on the estate.

I won’t be working with Kingsclere.

 

[ajcc]

Look up Renison’s farm, Eden valley, Cumbria. Good Instagram page maybe something a lot of us ought to consider?

 

[James691]

Yeah, spent a day with Nic and Reno. Nice people

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I’d forget hens unless you have 1 millions

Or if you retail all the eggs.