- Location
- Cheshire
The Beltex is supreme.
- Thread starter Agrivator
- Start date
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I think the point is, you shouldn’t NEED to.
muleman
Member
Haha, winters inside with the tups yes!Does he live inside with the Leicester’s??
We got him that year when mule gimmer lambs were a bad trade to tup some that we kept, he does a real job .....the lad we got it off cant believe it hasnt deed yet....an he was sayin that couple of years back!
But when your investing that much money in too a single sheep surely you should? Or is it just me being tight haha
Aspiring Peasants
Member
- Location
- North Pennines
If you buy a Beltex to treat like a tup whose main selling point is he doesn't need looking after then you're missing the point. A Beltex is bred to produce a quality export spec lamb that consistently earns a premium of £20 to £25. For that you have to put in a bit more effort.
The fact that the prices for both tups and gimmers with Beltex blood in them keeps rising shows there is an increasing demand so they must be doing something right!
- Location
- Cheshire
I meant it as a joke but if it works!!!Haha, winters inside with the tups yes!
We got him that year when mule gimmer lambs were a bad trade to tup some that we kept, he does a real job .....the lad we got it off cant believe it hasnt deed yet....an he was sayin that couple of years back!
- Location
- North Wales
I know of someone who took a load of yearling pedigree Dutch texels down to Builth a good few years ago. They weren't pushed tups and didn't sell any as they didn't look the part, i.e. weren't over fed fat lumps.
They sold them in the local auction to get rid as they had nearly 50 of them all together. One guy I shear for had brought 3 of them for £150 each, which was a fraction of what they hoped they'd make in Builth.
One year as I was shearing them he was telling me they were the best tups he'd ever had, cracking lambs every year but he was going to sell them after tupping as they were 6 yrs old and starting to show their age.
They sold them in the local auction to get rid as they had nearly 50 of them all together. One guy I shear for had brought 3 of them for £150 each, which was a fraction of what they hoped they'd make in Builth.
One year as I was shearing them he was telling me they were the best tups he'd ever had, cracking lambs every year but he was going to sell them after tupping as they were 6 yrs old and starting to show their age.
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Pistonbroke
Member
About 30 years ago a local texel breeder imported a Dutch tup lamb through a Dutch dealer/ broker. He stayed with us on farm b and b while he delivered the lambs( think he had six ) . My dad was horrified at how bad their legs and mouths were, apparently they were ordered by indexes and numbers,not visually. Only one crop of lambs ,well,half a crop because the lamb wasn't big enough to tup the ewes
- Location
- North Wales
My understanding is (but I'm prepared to be corrected). They all started out the same but bred in different direction. The texel is bred the biggest, fastest growth but lacking the shape of a beltex or Dutch. The beltex is more muscular but smaller than the texel and the Dutch texel is even smaller, shorter in length and height but even more extreme in shape.
Do you know her?
Willie adie
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I know of her , if it's who I think it is
M-J-G
Member
20 to 25 quid premium, over what?
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Aside from that, I understand that Beltexes can be registered as Dutch Texels (& used as sires), but Dutch Texels can’t be registered as Beltexes or used (officially) as sires.
They are effectively one and the same, but the Beltex Society is protecting ‘the brand’.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
They certainly don’t earn that premium consistently down here, or there might be more used locally. It appears to be a very regional th8ng, depending on where those niche buyers frequent. I know of a couple of local shepherds using Dutch Texels that take them to Ruthin (90 mins?) to catch that trade, as nothing closer.
I take issue with the fact that any tup that needs wrapping in cotton wool to keep alive has much of a place tbh. A lot of it is down to their rearing management, rather than breed.
My main Charollais stock ram ran with 70 pedigree ewes for 2 cycles, then out with the commercial flock at 1:80, then he chased returns from those for a cycle. He obviously lost a bit of weight, but has put it all back on without mollycoddling or a feed bag, and is every bit as good confirmation as the 3 yr old Beltex stock ram, still going strong himself, having been reared similarly.
Of course, photos would show the Beltex looking better behind, as he has more wool and a different skeletal structure.
You shouldn’t ‘need’ to wrap any ram in cotton wool for him to survive imo, that’s just a result of poor breeding & rearing management, regardless of breed.
Whilst farmers are happy to pay £550 for ram lambs that only last a season, none of that’s going to change though.
The first post of this thread is amusing. So you made the effort to go to a sale (with what I assume is already a negative opinion of Beltex), noticed how good the atmosphere was and probably how well everyone gets on, seen there was a good trade...but then slate the breed on a public forum. I don’t get why Beltex get such a bad rep on here, every breed has horror stories, there is not doubt the breed needs work but also no doubt that in the last 15 years it has improved dramatically. Farming loves a negative headline whether it’s vs BBC or against each other. Texels, Suffolks and Charollais all have issues and feed like crazy for sales.
Wouldn’t be a bad shout just to say good sale, great atmosphere, sheep were well turned out
Wouldn’t be a bad shout just to say good sale, great atmosphere, sheep were well turned out
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
@Agrivator regular tells us all that we should be using Beltexes, so I wouldn’t say he wasn’t an advocate of the breed.
I took his OP as saying how good the trade was, with the last bit very much tongue in cheek (although many of us will already know if the reputation the breed has for longevity, richly deserved).
f**king customers, eh?Carlisle today - about 700 shearling rams averaged £1500, with a top price of 30,000 gns.
I can't remember being at a sale with as much buzz and enthusiasm.
And the same will happen next year after about a third of the purchases have died.
Aspiring Peasants
Member
- Location
- North Pennines
I agree that over feeding will ruin any ram, but that is regardless of breed. What I was getting at is that if you want to go down a system of quality lamb production then you need Beltex in the mix and they need managing more carefully than most other breeds.
I'm not a Beltex breeder by the way but buy Beltex and Beltex Cross tups to put on texel/mules right up to nearly pure beltex or texel ewes.
It is a different system to that advocated by many on here but is growing as demonstrated by the demand for these type of sheep at the Beltex sale and probably more importantly for commercial femails at breeding sales
The premium is not as great in times when all lambs are in strong demand as when there is a glut but it is still worthwhile.
Reading an article on the latest sheep breed survey, for the first time it says "a second cross breeding structure can be identified based on terminal sire breeds crossed to various breeds and crosses with the female progeny retained for breeding " . So this is a growing trend which needs Beltex in the mix and an acceptance if you do this that they need managing differently
I'm not a Beltex breeder by the way but buy Beltex and Beltex Cross tups to put on texel/mules right up to nearly pure beltex or texel ewes.
It is a different system to that advocated by many on here but is growing as demonstrated by the demand for these type of sheep at the Beltex sale and probably more importantly for commercial femails at breeding sales
The premium is not as great in times when all lambs are in strong demand as when there is a glut but it is still worthwhile.
Reading an article on the latest sheep breed survey, for the first time it says "a second cross breeding structure can be identified based on terminal sire breeds crossed to various breeds and crosses with the female progeny retained for breeding " . So this is a growing trend which needs Beltex in the mix and an acceptance if you do this that they need managing differently
Aspiring Peasants
Member
- Location
- North Pennines
Okay I accept that figures such this are to an extent anecdotal but they reflect my own experience. It's hard to find data on breed averages for commercial lambs, but some do show them. Last week these were at Kirkby. The Suffolks were a very good pen. There were no Charrolais
