The Ineos Grenadier thread

[Cowabunga]

They certainly have dropped a massive bollock if it doesn't qualify as commercial, I mean that was the whole point of the entire vanity project wasn't it, to replace the defender with a proper commercial because landrover wouldn't?

There is the blind van version of course but I’m very reluctant to forgo the extended cab that I’m so used to on the two Ranger’s I’ve owned for easy access to the crap I invariably carry. I’m not even going to consider buying a two door vehicle.

They will need to rethink their specification for the four door pickup version because if they cannot rate it to carry over a ton, that will not qualify as being a commercial vehicle in vast swathes of the Globe, including the UK either.

Have they dropped a massive turd of a vehicle that will soon become a modern day dinosaur? Hopefully not.

 

[mf7480]

Very roughly I reckon the difference in total tax paid between a LTD company buying a commercial vehicle for 50k+VAT and a 40% tax paying employee taking a car version of the same vehicle as a company car is getting on for £60,000 over a 3 year period.

 

[Cowabunga]

Very roughly I reckon the difference in total tax paid between a LTD company buying a commercial vehicle for 50k+VAT and a 40% tax paying employee taking a car version of the same vehicle as a company car is getting on for £60,000 over a 3 year period.

Yes, it can make a massive difference to running cost and the viability of the vehicle. I have not run the figures but know it adds up to big money and will certainly influence very many purchase decisions.

 

[Tubbylew]

There is the blind van version of course but I’m very reluctant to forgo the extended cab that I’m so used to on the two Ranger’s I’ve owned for easy access to the crap I invariably carry. I’m not even going to consider buying a two door vehicle.

They will need to rethink their specification for the four door pickup version because if they cannot rate it to carry over a ton, that will not qualify as being a commercial vehicle in vast swathes of the Globe, including the UK either.

Have they dropped a massive turd of a vehicle that will soon become a modern day dinosaur? Hopefully not.

As far as i'm aware the utility version still has 4 doors, a pickup that can't carry at least a ton is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

[Farmer Roy]

As far as i'm aware the utility version still has 4 doors, a pickup that can't carry at least a ton is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Err, do ANY dual cab utes currently on the market actually have a 1 t payload ?
Especially when you include the weight of the driver, any passengers, tools or other equipment on or in the vehicle ?

back in the day, all the rural merchandise companies here used to run around in tray back 70 Series Toyotas, or Hiluxs, delivering pallets of seed, chemical etc

but, that was pushing the limit a bit & now they won’t put a tonne on a Ute, delivering with trailers or actual trucks now

I was always of the opinion most dual cabs had a reduced capacity compared to single cabs, as obviously the weight of the extra body work but also due to the load area being shifted further to the rear.

I know there is no way I’d put a tonne on the back of any dual cab here, unless it was maybe a Dodge Ram or F250 Superduty

4WD ute payloads aren't what they seem

Utes have claimed payloads and towing ratings that can't be realised in the real world, Allan Whiting from Outback Travel Australia reports. Every ute maker claims at least a nominal one-tonne payload figure and more than three tonnes trailer towing capacity for several 4WD utes in its range...

outbacktravelaustralia.com.au

 

[CPF]

Err, do ANY dual cab utes currently on the market actually have a 1 t payload ?
Especially when you include the weight of the driver, any passengers, tools or other equipment on or in the vehicle ?

back in the day, all the rural merchandise companies here used to run around in tray back 70 Series Toyotas, or Hiluxs, delivering pallets of seed, chemical etc

but, that was pushing the limit a bit & now they won’t put a tonne on a Ute, delivering with trailers or actual trucks now

I was always of the opinion most dual cabs had a reduced capacity compared to single cabs, as obviously the weight of the extra body work but also due to the load area being shifted further to the rear.

I know there is no way I’d put a tonne on the back of any dual cab here, unless it was maybe a Dodge Ram or F250 Superduty

4WD ute payloads aren't what they seem

Utes have claimed payloads and towing ratings that can't be realised in the real world, Allan Whiting from Outback Travel Australia reports. Every ute maker claims at least a nominal one-tonne payload figure and more than three tonnes trailer towing capacity for several 4WD utes in its range...

outbacktravelaustralia.com.au

I’ve got a Nissan np 300 pick-up I have upgraded from 1047 kgs to 1500kgs carrying complicity.
Ps double cab

 

[Cowabunga]

Err, do ANY dual cab utes currently on the market actually have a 1 t payload ?
Especially when you include the weight of the driver, any passengers, tools or other equipment on or in the vehicle ?

back in the day, all the rural merchandise companies here used to run around in tray back 70 Series Toyotas, or Hiluxs, delivering pallets of seed, chemical etc

but, that was pushing the limit a bit & now they won’t put a tonne on a Ute, delivering with trailers or actual trucks now

I was always of the opinion most dual cabs had a reduced capacity compared to single cabs, as obviously the weight of the extra body work but also due to the load area being shifted further to the rear.

I know there is no way I’d put a tonne on the back of any dual cab here, unless it was maybe a Dodge Ram or F250 Superduty

4WD ute payloads aren't what they seem

Utes have claimed payloads and towing ratings that can't be realised in the real world, Allan Whiting from Outback Travel Australia reports. Every ute maker claims at least a nominal one-tonne payload figure and more than three tonnes trailer towing capacity for several 4WD utes in its range...

outbacktravelaustralia.com.au

I carry ton tote bags of cattle/calf feed or 600kg fertiliser bags fairly regularly in the back of the Ranger and it is as steady as a rock. My old LR 110 hi-cap two door on the other hand, with heavy duty optional rear springs fitted, drove like a boat in a hurricane with 600kgs on board even though the load would be up against the ladder rack and more forward of the rear axle than above and behind it like the Ranger.
When I first considered the four door Ranger with its short bed with most of it hung behind the rear axle, it was a concern, both that the bed would be too short for my work and for the stability of the drive. Both concerns turned out to be unfounded and it is perfect for my needs. It is not a road-runner but a farm vehicle that rarely drives very far from my farms and most of its near 75,000 miles has been between farms seven miles apart, many of them with a trailer behind, often heavily loaded both ways.

Rear springs tend to break on Rangers but almost always when no load or a light load was carried. Ive gone through four or five leaf springs over 150,000 miles between the two I’ve run, the latest earlier this year wile towing an empty trailer which has a tare of only 1200kgs. No load in the bed of the pickup.

A Grenadier would not be able to carry those big bags and would require far more use of the flatbed trailer, so not ideal in that way. So if it isn’t a commercial vehicle officially after all, a cancellation of my order is not something I will fret over. It’s meant to be a tool for a job and if it isn’t suitable in any significant way, it will not be finding a home here. This is a purely commercial decision, not one born of passion or any great enthusiasm.

 

[Lowland1]

Err, do ANY dual cab utes currently on the market actually have a 1 t payload ?
Especially when you include the weight of the driver, any passengers, tools or other equipment on or in the vehicle ?

back in the day, all the rural merchandise companies here used to run around in tray back 70 Series Toyotas, or Hiluxs, delivering pallets of seed, chemical etc

but, that was pushing the limit a bit & now they won’t put a tonne on a Ute, delivering with trailers or actual trucks now

I was always of the opinion most dual cabs had a reduced capacity compared to single cabs, as obviously the weight of the extra body work but also due to the load area being shifted further to the rear.

I know there is no way I’d put a tonne on the back of any dual cab here, unless it was maybe a Dodge Ram or F250 Superduty

4WD ute payloads aren't what they seem

Utes have claimed payloads and towing ratings that can't be realised in the real world, Allan Whiting from Outback Travel Australia reports. Every ute maker claims at least a nominal one-tonne payload figure and more than three tonnes trailer towing capacity for several 4WD utes in its range...

outbacktravelaustralia.com.au

I often put 1 tonne or more in the back of an Amarok and it doesn't know it's there.

 

[Pistonbroke]

2010 L200 here that looks very unhappy with a 500kg tote in the back. Wouldn't entertain a ton

 

[steveR]

Err, do ANY dual cab utes currently on the market actually have a 1 t payload ?

I know there is no way I’d put a tonne on the back of any dual cab here, unless it was maybe a Dodge Ram or F250 Superduty

A 600kg bag of fert in the back of my Ranger is too much IMO. Feels very unsafe.

I killed the leaf springs carting a 600l IBC around with 500l of water and a small pump.... IBC well forward.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Just because you can, doesn’t the always mean you should

 

[Clive]

No it is not use in the agricultural sense. If it was used for hire and reward exclusively though, it would qualify for VAT reclaim. However it would not qualify for exemption from the initial luxury car tax or the annual excise duty premium based on vehicle emissions.

Good luck trying to get a straight accountant to class a non-commercial vehicle as a commercial for tax purposes on a farm. The best you could legally hope for would be a 50% rebate on tax on rentals if business contract hired.

if it was a “pool car” then it would fully qualify

that does restrict any none business use however but why would a commercial be used for anything else

 

[Clive]

In reality they will sell these things to rich morons who don't know what the fudge 'commercial' means except it makes you more like GI Joe if you own one. They will still sell more vehicles than they can possibly make in the right time frame anyway because: 'awwwwwww, wow, a modern Defender!' type mindset.

It is a luxury car anyway in all but name, lets be honest. I personally think this thing has all the hallmarks of the McClaren supercar relaunch but I hope I'm wrong.

its a cheap work horse these days at the price point

luxury starts at double that price new

you can soend more on a 8 year old used Defender ………. and people do so

 

[Wombat]

if it was a “pool car” then it would fully qualify

that does restrict any none business use however but why would a commercial be used for anything else

People like to push the personal use boundaries.

 

[Cowabunga]

A 600kg bag of fert in the back of my Ranger is too much IMO. Feels very unsafe.

I killed the leaf springs carting a 600l IBC around with 500l of water and a small pump.... IBC well forward.

Well I carry a ton regularly with zero issues and rear springs on Rangers and Transit tend to break when unloaded, which is when all five of mine broke a leaf. One went when just driving across my farmyard.

 

[Cowabunga]

People like to push the personal use boundaries.

Mine would be a pool car but is taken home by my brother twice daily. Regardless of that, I’ve yet to find an accountant that will treat a farm car as a commercial vehicle for taxation accounting

 

[steveR]

Well I carry a ton regularly with zero issues and rear springs on Rangers and Transit tend to break when unloaded, which is when all five of mine broke a leaf. One went when just driving across my farmyard.

I do wonder if there are different specs on these things?

I have complained about the non-effective "low ratio" on mine, but have had another Owner say their ranger box works well! Same maybe for back ends? Mine is superb on the road, soft and pliant.... maybe a lighter spring spec?

 

[Cowabunga]

I do wonder if there are different specs on these things?

I have complained about the non-effective "low ratio" on mine, but have had another Owner say their ranger box works well! Same maybe for back ends? Mine is superb on the road, soft and pliant.... maybe a lighter spring spec?

The single cab versions and some ‘economy’ 4wd models are equipped with a higher ratio final drive for greater economy. These have a significantly lower towing capacity and possibly a lower payload as well, although I’m not sure about that. The single cab versions do not need a ton payload to be classed as commercial vehicles. It is essential for the 4wd versions although the Raptor has coil rear springs and just over half a ton payload. This Raptor version does not qualify as a commercial vehicle and therefore VAT is not generally reclaimable and neither are the other tax relief benefits.

My low range box is very effective coupled to the six speed automatic gearbox.

 

[Still Farming]

 

[CPF]

Have a look at this video skip through to the Grenadier