The NI/ROI Protocol

JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
You are taking for granted that the DUP would come out of an election as the biggest unionist party.

If it's the UUP, then stormont is up again.

while not a DuP supporter, i would be very surprised if they not the largest unionist party, with 28 seats, the uup has 10 and alliance 8 and TuV 1. it will take a massive swing for them to lose being the biggest party tho i do except them to lose a number of seats, doesn't matter how many hard liners going to the TuV. he never get enough to be the largest party. and with the soft unionist vote being split between the UUP/ALLIANCE (both i think will pick up a good few seats) i don't think either will get more than the DuP.

and that not forget that the minute the election will be called, the DuP main message will be "Vote for us else SF will be FM" will stop a lot of people who are unhappy with the DuP from Voting for anyone else
 

Ashtree

Member
I reckon SF have peaked, and are more likely from now on, to suffer losses to SDLP.
DUP are well and truly past their peak, and on the downward slope. The Protocol is just an accelerant in that process.
This simple Simon vote for us as the only way to stop SF, simply doesn’t have the same effect anymore. The post Belfast Agreement electorate don‘t buy into that politics. The non green, non orange voters, are the swing vote which has to be captured.
The other thing of course is that the bellowing megaphone Paisley Snr, could rattle up votes with his “aura” and power of speech. Donaldson is more professorial. Hasn’t got that Paisley rent a crowd capability.
 

JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
The post Belfast Agreement electorate simply don't show up at elections. it well know (in many countries that young people don't vote as well as older people) and there still enough of around who remember what SF/IRA did that having a SF first minster would be unacceptable (tho we had a SF firstminster for years now as FM and DFM are = in everything)
 
while not a DuP supporter, i would be very surprised if they not the largest unionist party, with 28 seats, the uup has 10 and alliance 8 and TuV 1. it will take a massive swing for them to lose being the biggest party tho i do except them to lose a number of seats, doesn't matter how many hard liners going to the TuV. he never get enough to be the largest party. and with the soft unionist vote being split between the UUP/ALLIANCE (both i think will pick up a good few seats) i don't think either will get more than the DuP.

and that not forget that the minute the election will be called, the DuP main message will be "Vote for us else SF will be FM" will stop a lot of people who are unhappy with the DuP from Voting for anyone else
As I suggested before, people tend to vote to keep people out as opposed getting a particular group in.
 

JimAndy

Member
Location
portadown
As I suggested before, people tend to vote to keep people out as opposed getting a particular group in.

how much better if at the bottom of the ballot they had a "none of the above" box, that if got the most votes then none of the people could stand again that had stood this time
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
The Protocol is still causing chaos. But at last, Ulster Unionists have cause for optimism
For the first time in months, there are signs of choreography between ministers at Westminster and unionists in Ulster

By
Owen Polley
15 September 2021 • 1:27pm
You might have been forgiven for forgetting that the Northern Ireland Protocol was still in place, over the summer. Politicians on both sides of the Irish Sea, and in Brussels, effectively took a break from this unfinished piece of Brexit business. Unfortunately, for traders and consumers in the province there was no time-out from disrupted supply chains and higher prices caused by the EU’s land-grab in Ulster.

Just before summer recess, the Government published a ‘command paper’, setting out its plans to remove the checks and bureaucracy between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Then, as parliament returned for a new term last week, Lord Frost announced that the UK would unilaterally extend ‘grace periods’ that have, so far, kept food moving into the province, despite the Protocol’s punishing provisions.

The Government’s statement followed warnings from Marks and Spencer that Northern Ireland was facing a “substantial reduction in food supply” before Christmas. At the start of September, the Stormont health minister, Robin Swann, revealed that more than 900 medicines were due to be withdrawn from the province’s health system due to the Protocol, while 2,400 more were “at risk” of withdrawal.




The decision to extend grace periods delays a food crisis in Northern Ireland, but it does not solve the economic and constitutional problems created by the Irish Sea border or provide certainty for businesses or consumers. Last week, the Democratic Unionist Party’s leader, Jeffrey Donaldson, underlined the urgency of reaching a more lasting deal with Brussels, during a heavily publicised speech at the La Mon Hotel in Belfast.

Donaldson announced that the DUP, which is the biggest party in the Stormont executive, would withdraw its ministers from North-South meetings with their counterparts from the Republic of Ireland, until the issues with the Protocol are resolved. The Belfast Agreement created a series of cross-border bodies, but unionists argue that it cannot be “business as usual” for these groups while other elements of the peace deal are seriously undermined.

In addition, Donaldson promised that DUP ministers will refuse to enforce new or more rigorous checks at Irish Sea ports. “If the choice is ultimately between remaining in office or implementing the Protocol in its current form,” the DUP leader said, “then the only option for any unionist minister would be to cease to hold that office.”

He implied that, if the EU continues to insist that the deal cannot be changed significantly, and if our government refuses to suspend its most damaging features, then power-sharing in Northern Ireland will collapse. Donaldson’s strategy could be interpreted as a threat to Boris Johnson and the Conservatives. But, equally, it strengthens the UK’s case for renegotiating the Protocol.

At the same time as the DUP stiffened its tone, Maros Sefcovic visited Northern Ireland. The EU Commission vice president addressed an audience of keen and compliant Europhiles, at Queen’s University. In front of this friendly congregation, he dismissed the idea that the Protocol needs to be renegotiated, emphasising that Brussels is prepared only to discuss “flexibilities”. Splitting up the UK with an internal border, he insisted, is not a problem, but rather part of the “solution” to Brexit.

In response, Lord Frost warned the EU that the government is prepared to trigger Article 16 if its concerns are not addressed properly. This “emergency brake” permits either side to suspend aspects of the Protocol under certain conditions. The potential collapse of the devolved government in Northern Ireland bolsters his contention that the Irish Sea border has caused instability in the province, as well as diverting trade.

For the first time in months, there are signs of choreography between ministers at Westminster and unionists in Ulster, as they attack the worst aspects of the Protocol.

It’s important to recognise, though, that the Protocol raises two separate but related sets of problems. Firstly, there are the practical barriers to trade, which one of Northern Ireland’s most respected and understated economists recently estimated are costing its economy £850 million per year. Perhaps even more importantly, there are constitutional issues that the architect of the Belfast Agreement, Lord Trimble, says risk “a return to sectarian strife.”

Brussels quite specifically intended the Protocol to loosen Northern Ireland’s ties with the rest of the United Kingdom and strengthen its links to the Republic of Ireland and the EU. The government’s command paper merely proposed ideas to allow GB goods to flow freely to the province again and protect British standards and regulations in an integral part of the UK. It is, in other words, the minimum that unionists could accept and not a starting position for negotiation.

The government must face up to the fact that it imposed a deal that cut Northern Ireland off from the UK’s economy and politics, in order to force through its Brexit agreement. It was an act of constitutional recklessness, based seemingly on a naive idea that it could sort out the mess afterwards.

So far and quite predictably, things haven’t worked out like that. For that reason, there remains an overwhelming moral responsibility on Boris Johnson and Lord Frost to deal with the Protocol and repair the Union, even if it risks short-term damage to the UK’s relationships with the EU and the Republic of Ireland.
 
The Protocol is still causing chaos. But at last, Ulster Unionists have cause for optimism
For the first time in months, there are signs of choreography between ministers at Westminster and unionists in Ulster

By
Owen Polley
15 September 2021 • 1:27pm
You might have been forgiven for forgetting that the Northern Ireland Protocol was still in place, over the summer. Politicians on both sides of the Irish Sea, and in Brussels, effectively took a break from this unfinished piece of Brexit business. Unfortunately, for traders and consumers in the province there was no time-out from disrupted supply chains and higher prices caused by the EU’s land-grab in Ulster.

Just before summer recess, the Government published a ‘command paper’, setting out its plans to remove the checks and bureaucracy between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Then, as parliament returned for a new term last week, Lord Frost announced that the UK would unilaterally extend ‘grace periods’ that have, so far, kept food moving into the province, despite the Protocol’s punishing provisions.

The Government’s statement followed warnings from Marks and Spencer that Northern Ireland was facing a “substantial reduction in food supply” before Christmas. At the start of September, the Stormont health minister, Robin Swann, revealed that more than 900 medicines were due to be withdrawn from the province’s health system due to the Protocol, while 2,400 more were “at risk” of withdrawal.




The decision to extend grace periods delays a food crisis in Northern Ireland, but it does not solve the economic and constitutional problems created by the Irish Sea border or provide certainty for businesses or consumers. Last week, the Democratic Unionist Party’s leader, Jeffrey Donaldson, underlined the urgency of reaching a more lasting deal with Brussels, during a heavily publicised speech at the La Mon Hotel in Belfast.

Donaldson announced that the DUP, which is the biggest party in the Stormont executive, would withdraw its ministers from North-South meetings with their counterparts from the Republic of Ireland, until the issues with the Protocol are resolved. The Belfast Agreement created a series of cross-border bodies, but unionists argue that it cannot be “business as usual” for these groups while other elements of the peace deal are seriously undermined.

In addition, Donaldson promised that DUP ministers will refuse to enforce new or more rigorous checks at Irish Sea ports. “If the choice is ultimately between remaining in office or implementing the Protocol in its current form,” the DUP leader said, “then the only option for any unionist minister would be to cease to hold that office.”

He implied that, if the EU continues to insist that the deal cannot be changed significantly, and if our government refuses to suspend its most damaging features, then power-sharing in Northern Ireland will collapse. Donaldson’s strategy could be interpreted as a threat to Boris Johnson and the Conservatives. But, equally, it strengthens the UK’s case for renegotiating the Protocol.

At the same time as the DUP stiffened its tone, Maros Sefcovic visited Northern Ireland. The EU Commission vice president addressed an audience of keen and compliant Europhiles, at Queen’s University. In front of this friendly congregation, he dismissed the idea that the Protocol needs to be renegotiated, emphasising that Brussels is prepared only to discuss “flexibilities”. Splitting up the UK with an internal border, he insisted, is not a problem, but rather part of the “solution” to Brexit.

In response, Lord Frost warned the EU that the government is prepared to trigger Article 16 if its concerns are not addressed properly. This “emergency brake” permits either side to suspend aspects of the Protocol under certain conditions. The potential collapse of the devolved government in Northern Ireland bolsters his contention that the Irish Sea border has caused instability in the province, as well as diverting trade.

For the first time in months, there are signs of choreography between ministers at Westminster and unionists in Ulster, as they attack the worst aspects of the Protocol.

It’s important to recognise, though, that the Protocol raises two separate but related sets of problems. Firstly, there are the practical barriers to trade, which one of Northern Ireland’s most respected and understated economists recently estimated are costing its economy £850 million per year. Perhaps even more importantly, there are constitutional issues that the architect of the Belfast Agreement, Lord Trimble, says risk “a return to sectarian strife.”

Brussels quite specifically intended the Protocol to loosen Northern Ireland’s ties with the rest of the United Kingdom and strengthen its links to the Republic of Ireland and the EU. The government’s command paper merely proposed ideas to allow GB goods to flow freely to the province again and protect British standards and regulations in an integral part of the UK. It is, in other words, the minimum that unionists could accept and not a starting position for negotiation.

The government must face up to the fact that it imposed a deal that cut Northern Ireland off from the UK’s economy and politics, in order to force through its Brexit agreement. It was an act of constitutional recklessness, based seemingly on a naive idea that it could sort out the mess afterwards.

So far and quite predictably, things haven’t worked out like that. For that reason, there remains an overwhelming moral responsibility on Boris Johnson and Lord Frost to deal with the Protocol and repair the Union, even if it risks short-term damage to the UK’s relationships with the EU and the Republic of Ireland.
What chaos?
What shortages and issues are you having that the rest of the UK aren't experiencing?
 

Ashtree

Member
The Protocol is still causing chaos. But at last, Ulster Unionists have cause for optimism
For the first time in months, there are signs of choreography between ministers at Westminster and unionists in Ulster

By
Owen Polley
15 September 2021 • 1:27pm
You might have been forgiven for forgetting that the Northern Ireland Protocol was still in place, over the summer. Politicians on both sides of the Irish Sea, and in Brussels, effectively took a break from this unfinished piece of Brexit business. Unfortunately, for traders and consumers in the province there was no time-out from disrupted supply chains and higher prices caused by the EU’s land-grab in Ulster.

Just before summer recess, the Government published a ‘command paper’, setting out its plans to remove the checks and bureaucracy between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Then, as parliament returned for a new term last week, Lord Frost announced that the UK would unilaterally extend ‘grace periods’ that have, so far, kept food moving into the province, despite the Protocol’s punishing provisions.

The Government’s statement followed warnings from Marks and Spencer that Northern Ireland was facing a “substantial reduction in food supply” before Christmas. At the start of September, the Stormont health minister, Robin Swann, revealed that more than 900 medicines were due to be withdrawn from the province’s health system due to the Protocol, while 2,400 more were “at risk” of withdrawal.




The decision to extend grace periods delays a food crisis in Northern Ireland, but it does not solve the economic and constitutional problems created by the Irish Sea border or provide certainty for businesses or consumers. Last week, the Democratic Unionist Party’s leader, Jeffrey Donaldson, underlined the urgency of reaching a more lasting deal with Brussels, during a heavily publicised speech at the La Mon Hotel in Belfast.

Donaldson announced that the DUP, which is the biggest party in the Stormont executive, would withdraw its ministers from North-South meetings with their counterparts from the Republic of Ireland, until the issues with the Protocol are resolved. The Belfast Agreement created a series of cross-border bodies, but unionists argue that it cannot be “business as usual” for these groups while other elements of the peace deal are seriously undermined.

In addition, Donaldson promised that DUP ministers will refuse to enforce new or more rigorous checks at Irish Sea ports. “If the choice is ultimately between remaining in office or implementing the Protocol in its current form,” the DUP leader said, “then the only option for any unionist minister would be to cease to hold that office.”

He implied that, if the EU continues to insist that the deal cannot be changed significantly, and if our government refuses to suspend its most damaging features, then power-sharing in Northern Ireland will collapse. Donaldson’s strategy could be interpreted as a threat to Boris Johnson and the Conservatives. But, equally, it strengthens the UK’s case for renegotiating the Protocol.

At the same time as the DUP stiffened its tone, Maros Sefcovic visited Northern Ireland. The EU Commission vice president addressed an audience of keen and compliant Europhiles, at Queen’s University. In front of this friendly congregation, he dismissed the idea that the Protocol needs to be renegotiated, emphasising that Brussels is prepared only to discuss “flexibilities”. Splitting up the UK with an internal border, he insisted, is not a problem, but rather part of the “solution” to Brexit.

In response, Lord Frost warned the EU that the government is prepared to trigger Article 16 if its concerns are not addressed properly. This “emergency brake” permits either side to suspend aspects of the Protocol under certain conditions. The potential collapse of the devolved government in Northern Ireland bolsters his contention that the Irish Sea border has caused instability in the province, as well as diverting trade.

For the first time in months, there are signs of choreography between ministers at Westminster and unionists in Ulster, as they attack the worst aspects of the Protocol.

It’s important to recognise, though, that the Protocol raises two separate but related sets of problems. Firstly, there are the practical barriers to trade, which one of Northern Ireland’s most respected and understated economists recently estimated are costing its economy £850 million per year. Perhaps even more importantly, there are constitutional issues that the architect of the Belfast Agreement, Lord Trimble, says risk “a return to sectarian strife.”

Brussels quite specifically intended the Protocol to loosen Northern Ireland’s ties with the rest of the United Kingdom and strengthen its links to the Republic of Ireland and the EU. The government’s command paper merely proposed ideas to allow GB goods to flow freely to the province again and protect British standards and regulations in an integral part of the UK. It is, in other words, the minimum that unionists could accept and not a starting position for negotiation.

The government must face up to the fact that it imposed a deal that cut Northern Ireland off from the UK’s economy and politics, in order to force through its Brexit agreement. It was an act of constitutional recklessness, based seemingly on a naive idea that it could sort out the mess afterwards.

So far and quite predictably, things haven’t worked out like that. For that reason, there remains an overwhelming moral responsibility on Boris Johnson and Lord Frost to deal with the Protocol and repair the Union, even if it risks short-term damage to the UK’s relationships with the EU and the Republic of Ireland.
I seem to recall perfectly synched choreography not that long ago, between London and NI Unionists. Boris at DUP party conference, swearing undying loyalty to the union. Arlene swooning on his arm. Sammy spitting fire on the podium, with a 16 inch thick printout of TM’s proposed withdrawal agreement in front of him to heap scorn on. Between them all, they invented a minister for the union. Oh, how the love fest seemed like it was a match made in heaven.
Boris stuck the knife straight through the union barely a year later.
The Protocol is now an international agreement. It’s going nowhere, other than perhaps getting a lick of paint for the sake of throwing a bone to Jeffrey.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
IMG-20210917-WA0001.jpg
 

Ashtree

Member
My dear man, I recall you posting in the past, you have rarely visited the south, other than going through Dublin airport. Maybe I’m wrong in my recollection, and if I am, I apologise.

But do sometime soon take a drive. It won’t do you any harm. I promise!

Go into major builders suppliers, hardware stores, electrical retailers, furniture shops etc. You name it, empty shelves. Long lead times.

I work in an engineering business, buying in goods and materials from all over the world. We are out of stock on 40% if mainline items. There is a global shortage of stuff. It’s a Covid thing.

For my staycation this year, we went north. Donegal plus three days in NI. Your shelves are no more depleted than ours.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
My dear fellow, it's not that I boycott the Republic. 🤣 I just don't really have cause to be there. But I'll happily take your word for it that you are unable to put juice on your shelves too!
 
My dear man, I recall you posting in the past, you have rarely visited the south, other than going through Dublin airport. Maybe I’m wrong in my recollection, and if I am, I apologise.

But do sometime soon take a drive. It won’t do you any harm. I promise!

Go into major builders suppliers, hardware stores, electrical retailers, furniture shops etc. You name it, empty shelves. Long lead times.

I work in an engineering business, buying in goods and materials from all over the world. We are out of stock on 40% if mainline items. There is a global shortage of stuff. It’s a Covid thing.

For my staycation this year, we went north. Donegal plus three days in NI. Your shelves are no more depleted than ours.
We had Moore concrete panels in a few weeks ago and I asked the driver how things were at the ports, just smiled and said they're fine, it suits some people to have a bit of drama

I loaded a lorry with barley bound for NI 2 days ago, the lad was back in yesterday for another, and when I asked him what Irish Sea transport was these days, he said it was a fuss over nothing.

It was probably pointless asking, but that's what happens when you pay attention to what you read on the Internet from people with an agenda.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
My understanding is that it's fine with some things, and poor with others. But as a driver, you won't see that at the port, especially if you are transporting a non-problematic cargo. Carriers and suppliers have the wind of the problems now, and simply won't send problematic goods to the port, to have a lorry and driver tied up with hassle. Plus, not all of the regulations have been implemented yet. It's ok for you to be disregarding when you are on the right side of the Irish sea.
 
My understanding is that it's fine with some things, and poor with others. But as a driver, you won't see that at the port, especially if you are transporting a non-problematic cargo. Carriers and suppliers have the wind of the problems now, and simply won't send problematic goods to the port, to have a lorry and driver tied up with hassle. Plus, not all of the regulations have been implemented yet. It's ok for you to be disregarding when you are on the right side of the Irish sea.
I've always classed this as the right side, which is why I live here, we all have the choice!

But we still have bare shelves like you do, it's just that the Protocol is being used as the excuse on your side of the water by those who don't agree with it on principle and those who want to believe that follow on.

What products (apart from your favourite prune juice) are you having issues with that we can easily get here?
 

35% of English and Welsh farmers possibly/probably depressed

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Written by Michelle Martin from Agriland

The Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution (RABI) has today, Thursday, October 14, published the findings of The Big Farming Survey, which shows 35% of English and Welsh farmers are either possibly or probably depressed.

The survey, based on over 15,000 responses, concentrates on the health and well-being of the farming community in England and Wales in the 2020s.

The Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution (RABI) is a national charity that provides support to the farming community across England and Wales.

Mental health​


Mental well-being, the survey notes, describes our ability to cope with the ‘ups and downs’ of everyday life.

According to the survey, 14% of the farming community is ‘possibly depressed’ while...
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