The role of British farmers today

[brynseiri]

£3bn is chicken feed to the banks. Seriously. RBS just set aside that amount on its own to pay fines for miss-selling bonds in the US. Total lending to the agricultural sector in the UK is somewhere around £18bn in total, if they foreclosed on everyone, and failed to recoup a penny (when in reality they'd get most if not all of it back) that would be less than they've had to pay out over PPI compensation (about £37bn and counting), and that didn't break the banks did it?

I'm afraid farmers think farming is far more important to the UK economy than it really is. We could all down tools tomorrow and in economic terms no-one would hardly notice, we are that irrelevant.

That 3 billion is just the subsidy element of the agricultural economy, and that is per year. How long is the £18 billion of agricultural borrowing set out over on average? As well as the fact the billions they put aside for PPI had been paid to them in the first place over God knows how many years, and invested and earning for them. For every £1 invested, U.K. Farming puts £7.40 back into the economy.

 

[Goweresque]

That 3 billion is just the subsidy element of the agricultural economy, and that is per year. How long is the £18 billion of agricultural borrowing set out over on average? As well as the fact the billions they put aside for PPI had been paid to them in the first place over God knows how many years, and invested and earning for them. For every £1 invested, U.K. Farming puts £7.40 back into the economy.

The whole 'Invest £1 in X to get £Y back' schtick can be done with virtually any industry, and often is, to try and justify extra government spending on it. The Arts industry is always producing very similar figures. Its totally logically nonsense - if every pound invested by the State in farming brought £7 back, all the State has to do is raise taxes on everyone, give it to farmers and get 7 times the amount raised back. The Budget deficit would be closed in no time.

The fallacy in the argument is that every pound taxed by the government comes out of someones pocket, and thus is not spent how they would like to spend it, reducing the tax take in other areas of the economy. So while there may be a chain of extra economic activity from government spending on whatever, there is also a chain of economic activity that doesn't take place from the people the taxes were taken from. And by and large the two net off to zero. As in the concept that you can't pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.

 

[brynseiri]

The whole 'Invest £1 in X to get £Y back' schtick can be done with virtually any industry, and often is, to try and justify extra government spending on it. The Arts industry is always producing very similar figures. Its totally logically nonsense - if every pound invested by the State in farming brought £7 back, all the State has to do is raise taxes on everyone, give it to farmers and get 7 times the amount raised back. The Budget deficit would be closed in no time.

The fallacy in the argument is that every pound taxed by the government comes out of someones pocket, and thus is not spent how they would like to spend it, reducing the tax take in other areas of the economy. So while there may be a chain of extra economic activity from government spending on whatever, there is also a chain of economic activity that doesn't take place from the people the taxes were taken from. And by and large the two net off to zero. As in the concept that you can't pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.

Now you've put things clearly into perspective, all we are is a cottage industry.

 

[Henarar]

Now you've put things clearly into perspective, all we are is a cottage industry.

maybe but we are part of the most important one in the UK

 

[Henarar]

and food is the third most important thing after air and water
all those that hold no value to it can go without

 

[czechmate]

and food is the third most important thing after air and water
all those that hold no value to it can go without

Or buy from elsewhere

 

[brynseiri]

maybe but we are part of the most important one in the UK

I'd say so, but obviously someone sees it another way.

 

[Kevtherev]

Trouble is the modern consumer wants cheap quick food

 

[Henarar]

Or buy from elsewhere

don't matter where it comes from its still food, those that hold no value to it can go without

 

[J 1177]

So how come if we are so unimportant all it takes is a whiff of a food scare or a disaster such as foot and mouth and within a day the supermarket shelves are nearly empty.

 

[Henarar]

So how come if we are so unimportant all it takes is a whiff of a food scare or a disaster such as foot and mouth and within a day the supermarket shelves are nearly empty.

f**k me tuther day twos the end of t world when couldn't get at lettuce, folk were panic buying lettuce seeds, imagine what trouble it would be if there was no milk, folk would panic buy calves
bull calves most likely cos they wouldn't no no better

 

[Kevtherev]

Or mention snow....,

 

[czechmate]

So how come if we are so unimportant all it takes is a whiff of a food scare or a disaster such as foot and mouth and within a day the supermarket shelves are nearly empty.

People like shopping?
Just another excuse?
Ever heard of the queuing for the latest iPhone ?

 

[czechmate]

I'd say so, but obviously someone sees it another way.

Two words "Arthur Scargill"

Who would have imagined in the mid 70's there would be no pits left shortly after ?

 

[J 1177]

People like shopping?
Just another excuse?
Ever heard of the queuing for the latest iPhone ?

Iphones a bit chewy to eat to be honest.

 

[Goweresque]

fudge me tuther day twos the end of t world when couldn't get at lettuce, folk were panic buying lettuce seeds, imagine what trouble it would be if there was no milk, folk would panic buy calves
bull calves most likely cos they wouldn't no no better

And no farmer would ever dream of selling them some steers ("Look missus, its not a bull, its got no balls!!!") in those circumstances would they...................

One only has to look at what people buy at Christmas when the shops are shut for what, a whole 24 hours? Enough food to keep an army going for weeks.

 

[Henarar]

Two words "Arthur Scargill"

Who would have imagined in the mid 70's there would be no pits left shortly after ?

can do without coal

 

[czechmate]

can do without coal

Anyone in the world "can do without" uk produced food.
I know it only too well. I was growing veg through the years of near total uk grown veg through to next to no, uk grown veg. The buyers don't care and the public don't care

 

[Dave645]

£3bn is chicken feed to the banks. Seriously. RBS just set aside that amount on its own to pay fines for miss-selling bonds in the US. Total lending to the agricultural sector in the UK is somewhere around £18bn in total, if they foreclosed on everyone, and failed to recoup a penny (when in reality they'd get most if not all of it back) that would be less than they've had to pay out over PPI compensation (about £37bn and counting), and that didn't break the banks did it?

I'm afraid farmers think farming is far more important to the UK economy than it really is. We could all down tools tomorrow and in economic terms no-one would hardly notice, we are that irrelevant.

I think you should look up what uk agriculture stake is in the GDP. It's not peanuts and it's far more than 3 billion that's just subs it's nearer 100 billion. We may earn peanuts for our selves but we make the country a lot of money.
http://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/why-should-i-back-british-farming/the-economy/
I am sure you can find a more upto date vertion. And that's per year......are you sure you will be better off if we all go out of business....

 

[Goweresque]

Now you've put things clearly into perspective, all we are is a cottage industry.

Sadly, yes. The contribution farming makes to the UK's GDP is about £8-9 bn annually, out of a GDP of over £1800bn, ie about half a percent of the total. Farming could stop dead and the economy would jolt a bit, but a few years down the line it would all be forgotten. Most of the general public wouldn't even notice, it wouldn't affect employment much in the wider economy.

By contrast the food manufacturing sector contributes 2% of GDP, over £27bn annually. And that would continue regardless of whether the raw materials came from the UK or abroad.