The squeeze on milk and meat continues...

[Cowabunga]

Didn’t the vegan movement start backtracking a bit from the climate claims though.

No idea. I don't take much notice of vegan claims.

 

[RobJC]

Then I am right and you are plain wrong. The owner of this web site himself is farming sustainably with no animals and so are the majority of arable farmers.

Carbon is released from the soil when you cultivate a field. Plus fuel to plough, harrow, drill, roll, fertiliser, spray, fertiliser, spray, harvest.

We are all in this together, everything in life has an environmental impact.

I would say that livestock, and meat in particular on permanent pasture is very low impact environmentally, and the most sustainable farming. Just look at the African or American plains where animals have carried on for millions of years eating grassland.

 

[digger64]

Then I am right and you are plain wrong. The owner of this web site himself is farming sustainably with no animals and so are the majority of arable farmers.

Alot of all arable farm products and byproducts are inputs for meat/milk production there are some animals somewhere linked , is it really a sustainable system without chemical fertilizer or chemicals ?

 

[Macsky]

What evidence have you for your fantasy?

The vast increase in chronic, non communicable disease since the Second World War, going hand in hand with the increased consumption of industrially grown and processed, cereal based foods.

 

[Northern territory]

That kind of implies that a change of diet will not be a balanced diet. That has proved to be wrong over many changes over many decades if not centuries and certainly the diet varies greatly based on geographical regions. Yet most people's, if not actually short of their chosen food, eat a 'balanced diet'.

Alot of all arable farm products and byproducts are inputs for meat/milk production there are some animals somewhere linked , is it really a sustainable system without chemical fertilizer or chemicals ?

And who will you sell the majority of the sustainably grown wheat to if there are no livestock farmers?

 

[Hilly]

Then I am right and you are plain wrong. The owner of this web site himself is farming sustainably with no animals and so are the majority of arable farmers.

I don’t think 100% arable with the ever increasing chemical /fuel use and depleting soil is very sustainable, probably one of the more unsustainable farming models .

 

[Cowabunga]

Carbon is released from the soil when you cultivate a field. Plus fuel to plough, harrow, drill, roll, fertiliser, spray, fertiliser, spray, harvest.

We are all in this together, everything in life has an environmental impact.

I would say that livestock, and meat in particular on permanent pasture is very low impact environmentally, and the most sustainable farming. Just look at the African or American plains where animals have carried on for millions of years eating grassland.

I wouldn't disagree with you. However I'm not the one that needs convincing. I'm dealing with the reality of current trends and policies as they are.

 

[Hilly]

Carbon is released from the soil when you cultivate a field. Plus fuel to plough, harrow, drill, roll, fertiliser, spray, fertiliser, spray, harvest.

We are all in this together, everything in life has an environmental impact.

I would say that livestock, and meat in particular on permanent pasture is very low impact environmentally, and the most sustainable farming. Just look at the African or American plains where animals have carried on for millions of years eating grassland.

Maybe not matter what we think or know it’s what others like bill with the money and the power think and do that’s the problem , they could convince pay government to withdraw all subs from livestock farms , boom 90 % gone in three years .

 

[Cowabunga]

I don’t think 100% arable with the ever increasing chemical /fuel use and depleting soil is very sustainable, probably one of the more unsustainable farming models .

Nevertheless that is where arable farming is at and unless you either increase the number of animals [which arable farmers overwhelmingly don't want] or move them East and South, which would have the same effect as eliminating them on the farmers that lose them eastwards, then that is the way it is going to stay. Perhaps less intensively in future? Ask Clive if he wants a cow for every two or three acres he farms.
I wouldn't disagree with your assertion personally but that is not currently on the agenda and at the end of the day people have to eat something from somewhere.

 

[Northern territory]

Maybe not matter what we think or know it’s what others like bill with the money and the power think and do that’s the problem , they could convince pay government to withdraw all subs from livestock farms , boom 90 % gone in three years .

Money gets you along way but not all the way. Look at the backlash with the football.

 

[Hilly]

Money gets you along way but not all the way. Look at the backlash with the football.

I don’t follow football so I don’t know sorry .

 

[digger64]

Nevertheless that is where arable farming is at and unless you either increase the number of animals [which arable farmers overwhelmingly don't want] or move them East and South, which would have the same effect as eliminating them on the farmers that lose them eastwards, then that is the way it is going to stay. Perhaps less intensively in future? Ask Clive if he wants a cow for every two or three acres he farms.
I wouldn't disagree with your assertion personally but that is not currently on the agenda and at the end of the day people have to eat something from somewhere.

Do you buy dairy nuts, beet pulp,wheat feed or straights etc ?

 

[Northern territory]

I don’t follow football so I don’t know sorry .

Basically a billionaires club of football club owners thought they could break away and form their own European league, leaving everyone behind. It lasted 48 hours and then crumbled as there was such outrage. Probably wouldn’t happen in agriculture though

 

[Cowabunga]

And who will you sell the majority of the sustainably grown wheat to if there are no livestock farmers?

I've implied several times that this will have a detrimental effect of grain farmers for this reason. However this is also one of the positive spins put on decreasing ruminants, because far less land will need to be farmed to produce the same net amount of human food if cattle aren't eating it. An 8 to 1 gain has been bandied about, probably from that interview with Bill Gates.
Some of those farms [relatively few] will be able to produce crops as feedstock for the shed-grown meat replacement products, no doubt. I suspect that many more will initially try to grow milling wheat and malting barley, flooding the market with these and lowering the income potential drastically for all grain farmers. Just maybe the export market will save the day for them. Who knows? It will be an interesting ride for all classes of farmers.

 

[Cowabunga]

Do you buy dairy nuts, beet pulp,wheat feed or straights etc ?

I have bought all of these over the years.

 

[Northern territory]

I've implied several times that this will have a detrimental effect of grain farmers for this reason. However this is also one of the positive spins put on decreasing ruminants, because far less land will need to be farmed to produce the same net amount of human food if cattle aren't eating it. An 8 to 1 gain has been bandied about, probably from that interview with Bill Gates.
Some of those farms [relatively few] will be able to produce crops as feedstock for the shed-grown meat replacement products, no doubt. I suspect that many more will initially try to grow milling wheat and malting barley, flooding the market with these and lowering the income potential drastically for all grain farmers. Just maybe the export market will save the day for them. Who knows? It will be an interesting ride for all classes of farmers.

Looks like we are all doomed then.

 

[Raider112]

Well, farmers are trying to say that as long as cow numbers remain stable they don't add to methane emissions. The counter to that is that if ruminant numbers were decimated their emissions would certainly decline and over a ten year period would disappear from the atmosphere.

So the cow methane emission story favoured by livestock farmers is quite weak. Worth pushing though to at least try and delay the almost inevitable. Scottish Civil Servants are already having none of it though and are determined to reduce Scottish cows by 300,000.

You are almost gloating there, are you really a livestock farmer and if so why? You seemingly take a lot of pleasure from our imminent destruction so why don't you leave this sinking ship?

 

[digger64]

I have bought all of these over the years.

then perhaps you have clives cows then ,most arable farmers will suffer as much in the scenario that you predict

 

[Cowabunga]

Looks like we are all doomed then.

Squeezed till the pips squeak I suspect. Even with the well publicised proposed incentives to take land out of production to create vast areas of new forest and 'habitats'. The country can no longer afford to 'feather bed' farmers. In fact the UK Government is likely to be far more hostile and unhelpful to farmers/food-producers than any other country probably in the World. Certainly in Europe and compared to the USA.

 

[Cowabunga]

You are almost gloating there, are you really a livestock farmer and if so why? You seemingly take a lot of pleasure from our imminent destruction so why don't you leave this sinking ship?

You object to plain speaking and facts. I suggest that you wake up and smell the coffee but don't shoot the messenger.