The USA pandemic stimulus program vs the UK stimulus effort- Discuss?

[ollie989898]

Obviously the USA and UK are two drastically different countries and economies, but what are people's thoughts on the way each country has approached the pandemic in economic policy terms?

The USA handed a $2000 cheque to each citizen basically, whereas the comparable UK effort was in the furlough scheme which remains in effect but is changing toward the end point of September?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[thewalrus]

Uk furlough scheme is/was to generous. Too easy to be taken advantage of. Made up on the hoof and not revised even 1 year later!

 

[essex man]

UK scheme is perfect for control of population.
Those most minded to break covid rules, can break furlough rules to enrich themselves.
Most people have a level they need to go along with this.
For some it's zero, for others it's 30k.

 

[7610 super q]

All very well. How are we going to pay for all this furloughing though ?
In the past folks had to take this kind of setback on the chin.
Would have been nice to have had help dealing with interest rates at 17% +
Would have been nice to have had help during the recession of the early 90's which hit organics hard.
Would have been nice to have had help during the 2007 onwards recession which hit organics so hard, I lost my contract.
Would have been nice to have had help when I lost my SFP in 2005......

And so on........

Kinda feels like communism by the backdoor. Money is robbed from some in the form of taxes to pay others so everyone has the same amount of dosh to spend. Everyone must have a job, no matter how ridiculous ( shopping consultant anyone ? )

In for an interesting few years.

 

[Gong Farmer]

How many of those stimulus cheques/checks will be spent on something useful and pandemic-related?

 

[ollie989898]

The above would be my automatic question. If you handed Joe Public 2K each what would they spend it on? I managed to find work (not particularly glamorous or well paid) during lockdown and height of the pandemic, if you had given me 2K I would probably have banked it and saved it. In the USA I see some social media posts that some folk just went out and bought guns with their stimulus cheques and so on.

I understand the furlough scheme was costing about 14 billion a month- comparable to the spending the NHS gets. There has also been another 15 billon for helping small business and the like. So it's not out of the ball park spending in reality.

I guess much depends on economic growth in the coming months and how well the government can skimp off a bit of the cream toward paying it back, but as Clive and others have mentioned in other threads, with inflation happening all the time the need to eliminate debt totally is actually much reduced, you just need to service the borrowings and manage the debt, which is another reason I can't see interest rates going up any time soon.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Furlough guarantees pay for authorities, civil servants, MPs, Lords and council workers by default.

Anyone working in the private sector is/was vulnerable, even those on PAYE and in furlough are not guaranteed a job.

I've had nothing and the same for all members of my family to my knowledge - although my sister would have probably been able to claim but she was pregnant and had a child during Covid. So I guess she didn't benefit.

Some people have lots of money having furloughed and got a second income - plenty of time to do so.

I think some people will scream if a general tax comes along to punish everyone. Feel for those running a small private shop/business in town/city. Was speaking to an electrician who gave up and retired because work just dried up - sad.

 

[Pasty]

Furlough guarantees pay for authorities, civil servants, MPs, Lords and council workers by default.

Anyone working in the private sector is/was vulnerable, even those on PAYE and in furlough are not guaranteed a job.

I've had nothing and the same for all members of my family to my knowledge - although my sister would have probably been able to claim but she was pregnant and had a child during Covid. So I guess she didn't benefit.

Some people have lots of money having furloughed and got a second income - plenty of time to do so.

I think some people will scream if a general tax comes along to punish everyone. Feel for those running a small private shop/business in town/city. Was speaking to an electrician who gave up and retired because work just dried up - sad.

Lots of us got nothing whatsoever and had jobs / sidelines removed overnight. Many got loads of dosh for not going to work. The only saving grace is that those people are not really going anywhere are they? They don't have a clue about fractional reserve banking so have no idea how much of their 'savings' they are losing every day whilst told they are doing a great job.

 

[Dave79]

Another big difference is that the USA hasn’t really shut down for any great length of time. They went to testing for workforces and from my sister, who’s out there, she has been able to get her hair cut, nails done etc. She’s out for coffee with friends and sending pics with arms around friends, so their economy is much less affected than ours. The USA system is simple and no one can complain about being treated badly compared to others, but many were unaffected and got it. Our system is targeted, so the idea is better, but with that comes costs in bureaucracy and the ability to game the system, and also leaves some out in the cold with no help. Personally I think our system is better, though I would have had furlough etc set at 50% to allow people to live but encourage them back to work ASAP.

 

[ollie989898]

Furlough guarantees pay for authorities, civil servants, MPs, Lords and council workers by default.

Anyone working in the private sector is/was vulnerable, even those on PAYE and in furlough are not guaranteed a job.

I've had nothing and the same for all members of my family to my knowledge - although my sister would have probably been able to claim but she was pregnant and had a child during Covid. So I guess she didn't benefit.

Some people have lots of money having furloughed and got a second income - plenty of time to do so.

I think some people will scream if a general tax comes along to punish everyone. Feel for those running a small private shop/business in town/city. Was speaking to an electrician who gave up and retired because work just dried up - sad.

Anyone involved in local or regional government is classified as a key worker and they can work. I think we can agree that the people running the apparatus of the state and infrastructure needs to carry on going to work or it won't be long before everything goes Mad Max.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Anyone involved in local or regional government is classified as a key worker and they can work. I think we can agree that the people running the apparatus of the state and infrastructure needs to carry on going to work or it won't be long before everything goes Mad Max.

A lot of people aren't working in local or national government. Debatable about the Mad Max moment though.

 

[ollie989898]

A lot of people aren't working in local or national government. Debatable about the Mad Max moment though.

What people then?

You seem unhappy that people working for government, at any level, were permitted to remain in work? It's no different to the refuse collectors, recycling crews, power or utility companies having to remain operational?

 

[stewart]

Interesting that in an effort to boost production the government have come out with a scheme giving 130% tax relief on certain items of plant, is that a stimulus package or desperation?

 

[wanton dwarf]

What people then?

You seem unhappy that people working for government, at any level, were permitted to remain in work? It's no different to the refuse collectors, recycling crews, power or utility companies having to remain operational?

Do I ? Or are you over sensitive given your adhesion to Capitalism whilst you have opted wholely for the complete opposite. Nice bit of schizoprenia there.

As I said not all government services are operational, you have actually attempted to use them I take it ?

I was speaking to someone at CEF recently. He was telling me how his friend died because he didn't get medical treatment for a kidney problem. First one kidney failed and then the other began to fail .. and then he died.

 

[ollie989898]

Do I ? Or are you over sensitive given your adhesion to Capitalism whilst you have opted wholely for the complete opposite. Nice bit of schizoprenia there.

As I said not all government services are operational, you have actually attempted to use them I take it ?

I was speaking to someone at CEF recently. He was telling me how his friend died because he didn't get medical treatment for a kidney problem. First one kidney failed and then the other began to fail .. and then he died.

I don't believe I have schizophrenia to be honest, I've met several people with it and I don't think share any of the presentations they did.

My adhesion to capitalism? On the contrary, I don't think I have ever been a huge proponent of it, though I do like to point out on TFF how it is supposed to operate and that people can't have it both ways when it comes to how they think the world should work whilst simultaneously believing that agriculture should not have to face the same music?

I have engaged with several government departments and public services in the last 12 months, somehow, somewhere, they are functioning. I take it you have engaged with all of them and are about to tell me otherwise?

 

[4course]

the market to supply is the state or those who work for it or are living of it,took me a while (years and years)to realise this but supplying industry or services is way poor gravy in comparison

 

[wanton dwarf]

I don't believe I have schizophrenia to be honest, I've met several people with it and I don't think share any of the presentations they did.

My adhesion to capitalism? On the contrary, I don't think I have ever been a huge proponent of it, though I do like to point out on TFF how it is supposed to operate and that people can't have it both ways when it comes to how they think the world should work whilst simultaneously believing that agriculture should not have to face the same music?

I have engaged with several government departments and public services in the last 12 months, somehow, somewhere, they are functioning. I take it you have engaged with all of them and are about to tell me otherwise?

I know enough to say the NHS is none functional for most people. I know that carboard is not being recycled. I know that you cannot use local government large rubbish removal services. I also know that planning and enforcement is reduced in service.

So almost everything I've tried or needed to do is not working.

 

[ollie989898]

I know enough to say the NHS is none functional for most people. I know that carboard is not being recycled. I know that you cannot use local government large rubbish removal services. I also know that planning and enforcement is reduced in service.

So almost everything I've tried or needed to do is not working.

I have no doubt that some parts of the NHS are not functioning as expected but I can tell you the parts I know of or have contact with are functioning as I would expect.

I have no idea about planners of the local authority in this region, it is no secret that their are generally permanently skint or inept to varying degrees. I generally avoid having any need to deal with them.

 

[yellow belly]

Interesting that in an effort to boost production the government have come out with a scheme giving 130% tax relief on certain items of plant, is that a stimulus package or desperation?

There is a very good reason for the 130 %
in 2 years time the company tax rate is going up by 6%
companies would delay investment to gain higher tax relief
so to mitigate this investment in the next 2 years has higher tax relief
this is only for limited companies
sole traders and partnerships do not get the relief because they are not getting the extra tax in 2 years time

 

[yellow belly]

In the uk with enforced lock down many businesses are not allowed to operate at all
with out furlough many of these businesses would go bust or shut down and make people redundant to protect the
business