There is no such thing as the wild in the UK?

[Mark Hatton]

I've probably posted this elsewhere but here goes, I was in the Yorkshire Dales not that long ago and while driving through some pretty damn impressive scenery it got me thinking as to what was there previously. There were cattle and sheep happily grazing in what looked to be a fairly rich environment of small wooded areas, plenty of hedges etc and I thought, surely this can't all of been trees in any recent times, as it looked on that day I wondered how long it had been in that state, there must be 10's of thousand s of acres that haven't had trees on
for centuries and it can't be that nature starved surely?

 

[Dry Rot]

Well, I ticked 'yes'. There is wilderness up the far north of Scotland and on some of the islands, but not sure that is true wilderness because if there is something edible on it, someone will add sheep and deer -- and they eat everything.

On the other hand, I had 5 acres of grass here one year that wasn't let. Tufty grass grew and gave cover to nesting partridges, pheasants and duck.

This area used to be famous for grey partridge ad brown hares. There are none now. At my last home in Glenlivet, I could look out of the window in winter and see my neighbour's corn stack black with red grouse and red grouse. Grey hill partridges would be scavenging around the feet of out wintered cattle feeding on unthreshed sheaves of oats.

Then they build a shed and put the cattle inside. They got a combine harvester for the corn and put the grain inside and the straw into round bales.

There are few grouse, hill partridges, or hares now. Farming has progressed. Or so they tell me. I am all for some "re-wilding" but not sure the city people have a clue how it could be done. They'll screw it up as they always do. Why do bureaucrats want everything in little boxes like pigeon holes? The countryside doesn't work like that and it's best left to those that know that.

 

[michael N123]

Yellowstone national park is 2.2 million acres Wolfe’s are ok there

 

[Mark Hatton]

Yellowstone national park is 2.2 million acres Wolfe’s are ok there

And that’s the problem, the U.K just isn’t big enough for everything, I don’t understand the obsession on tree planting and imported food!

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

These are the nearest to “wild” in terms of cattle

Chillingham Wild Cattle | Northumberland tourist attraction

Chillingham Wild Cattle is a leading, Northumberland based tourist attraction | Chillingham Wild Cattle | Northumberland | Northumberland things to do

chillinghamwildcattle.com

Not allowed to roam the streets though? Could we countenance some village green rewilding with WILD herbivores, there would be chuntering from the parish council

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Below is a letter I wrote to the Times last week which they didn't print. This is what I believe sums up the difference between what we as farmers understand about wildlife and the countryside and those that have an idea of what the rural idyll should be!

Rare wildlife promised new lease of life



Sir, On the western end of Romney Marsh we have hundreds of Curlew at this time of the year and a large resident population of Water Voles plus thousands of other “threatened species”. We have farmed in the same way for decades and because of it the land was designated an SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest) and more recently become a Special SPA (Special Protection Area).

We are limited in the way we farm this land, fertilizer and chemical use is restricted or banned. When this was first designated in 1981 we were compensated for income foregone on what is very productive Grade 1 and 2 agricultural land. The compensation payments have declined over the years and the principal of lost income forgotten. Farmers need to be very careful what they sign up to as “Rewilding” means different scenarios to different people or even dereliction of the countryside.

The reason we have so many of these “threatened” species is partly due to our farming methods, but principally due to the control of predators, trapping of American Mink and other species which if left uncontrolled wipe out the species we are trying to encourage. On the best site we have for wildlife there is only one footpath, so human disturbance is minimal.

Before politicians throw millions of pounds at whatever rewilding means they would do well to visit some of our existing successful wildlife sites and talk to the people who have managed them over decades for what is becoming a pittance.

 

[Kidds]

rewilding would have to mean banning humans from walking through it or going anywhere near it .

This is the only way it can possibly work.
Any access for dog walking (ie. running about all over the place totally out of control), mountain bikers etc will render it pointless.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

There is some rewilded neglected land near me, it was quite surprising just how quick it turned into a forest of Silver Birch and will easily become a proper forest within a couple of generations with Oak taking over from the Silver Birch. As said above, this wouldn't be allowed to happen if it affected the owners view.
These rewilders need to be careful what they wish for and you can be confident they won't want it on their own doorstep.

the most wildlife diverse places are the edges, where scrub transitions into grazing ground, funny enough that sounds to me just like hedges at field edges!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I love a bit of confirmation bias. Can we add more local examples to this thread? Neglected land is a good description, my view is land needs to be managed as "wild" doesn't exist.

I read years ago, that the only wild area in the UK was the Flo country in Scotland (and if I remember correctly, there was a government paid scheme to plant it all with trees!)

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Unattended ground becomes mono culture brambles here. Blackberries good for birds maybe ? Not much else.
Looking at Faceacre, I recon the majority would love this, as long as there's a few peasants park rangers to hack paths through the scrub for doggers dog walkers.
Basically the countryside will become an amusement park for those too tight to pay the entrance fee to visit Alton Towers....
Well, guess what, farmland is private property for the land owner to do as he/ she wishes with.
Re wilders can fund their own dreams, or f**k off.

I just tried to comment on facebook saying something similar, that without grazing animals it would turn into a wilderness of scrub, brambles and bracken, but lost heart trying to explain why that was not a good idea, gave up on another thread too on why letting Lynx free was also not a good idea (I think in the end I said something like, it always seems to be those who don't own sheep who think it's a good idea).

 

[spin cycle]

of course you can have 'wild' in this country....but being so crowded you can hardly have 'wilderness'

i'm one of the four ,so far, to disagree with op statement

i still think 'stewardship farming' is best of both worlds and elms is an almighty 'cock up'

 

[serf]

This country is far too small and far too busy to be rewilded. It’ll all sound great until it starts to encroach on the publics property. Until rabbits are digging up lawns, deer are grazing ornamental bushes, more foxes are making the patio stink.

Then they’ll want something done about it.

Yep they'll soon get over it ....
Just a fad their going through while their bellys are full...
Trees won't taste to good at a guess!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

We wouldn't be having this discussion if there was more habitat between fields and everywhere wasn't so flailed and bare.

I will agree with you there, we are too keen on making the countryside look "suburban". I could not believe how everyone on here hated the idea of cutting hedges every two or three years and how everyone explained how cutting every year was good for hedges!!!!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Also remember farmers are the "indigenous" population.

Rewilding can only ever be a pastiche but what I really want to know is what species they are trying to encourage a return of? We are chopping down ash trees like nobodies business at the moment.

I'm interested in the idea of land having a better ecological function or maybe nature being better interconnnected but it all feels a bit headlong at the moment.

I am not happy with all these biomass burners, a lot of woodland round here is being cut and chipped for burning. I believe it is free to get it cut down as long as they can take it away. A lot cut from hedges with tree shears. I think we should leave a lot of these ash trees to rot where they stand.

 

[SilliamWhale]

So Knepp has been under a rewilding regime since 2001 according to their website and this image is from 2016-18 I think.

View attachment 1009687

Slow (& expensive from income foregone) job this rewilding unless it’s subject to many decades of cash support

I'd like to visit one day. I'm sure they've done some good stuff. I also wonder what they get paid. I bet it is a good tourist attraction though

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I'd like to visit one day. I'm sure they've done some good stuff. I also wonder what they get paid. I bet it is a good tourist attraction though

I would like to visit too, I really enjoyed the book and listening to the talk they did at groundswell. Great to have it as an example, but not a blueprint for the rest of the UK.

 

[Old Boar]

Ask a townie where they would go to see nature.

The countryside would be the answer.

Dont fiddle with what is already fixed.

 

[curlietailz]

So Knepp has been under a rewilding regime since 2001 according to their website and this image is from 2016-18 I think.

View attachment 1009687

Slow (& expensive from income foregone) job this rewilding unless it’s subject to many decades of cash support

Can’t be wild because people go to visit
It’s a managed estate….

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Can’t be wild because people go to visit
It’s a managed estate….

I was surprised at the number of vehicles when I visited the Ngoro goro crater in Tanzania, and can't get much more wild than the rift valley!

 

[SteveHants]

I answered "no" I'd thought of the Highlands of Scotland, but then remembered about the Highland clearances............