There was a time before Roundup?

[farmerm]

Why are they unaffordable?

Ploughing and cultivating comes at a cost but so do those methods you suggest... neither are unaffordable if the yields, quality and prices achieved are sufficient, both are unaffordable if the yields, quality and prices are insufficient...

 

[ajd132]

Agree on most of that although I can just remember “twitch” ( couch ) being a problem. It was the only stuff we ever sprayed glyphosate for. Inter row cults will make that worse rather than better. I don’t know what the answer will be however. We need glyphosate.

We do really

 

[bluebell]

question for our american friends are there crops grown in the USA called roundup ready and are they now showing signs of resistance?

 

[bluebell]

my point of this thread is that the widespread use of glyphosate, roundup will eventully if not already lead to resistance in certain weeds its used on ?

 

[ajd132]

question for our american friends are there crops grown in the USA called roundup ready and are they now showing signs of resistance?

Yes but they used multiple really low doses year after year after year

 

[ollie989898]

my point of this thread is that the widespread use of glyphosate, roundup will eventully if not already lead to resistance in certain weeds its used on ?

Not really, because of it's mode of action.

The resistance we have seen in other countries is because of how they use the product.

In the UK, a once annual spray of glyphosate, on what are normally small weeds or those which are killed by other factors later, the path to resistance is far less straight forward.

There are species of plants, even in the UK but also worldwide, that are basically tolerant of it anyway and always have been.

 

[Courier]

I can remember using it in 1975,
father said it was very expensive but it was a godsend turned our farm around .

£15 per acre was the cost in 1973/4 IIRC @ 4 pints per acre through a 100 gallon 24 ft Allman sprayer (Including boom extensions)

The aim was for 5 acres to a tank and if a tank covered 6 acres ? - "Run a bit closer next time"

 

[betweenthelines]

Lot more winter crops grown since Roundup came along, reducing the opportunity to cultivate to kill weeds.

No straw or stubble burning now either.

I can remember my father talking about grass being sprayed with TVO then set alight.

Love to see the neighbours reaction if I tried that.

 

[ollie989898]

It doesn't make any difference anyway; if you deliberately bring a piece of land into cultivation and sow a single species and try to keep it that way, the environmental value of that land is pish all. We've had this discussion before, either farm it or don't. How you farm it makes no difference whatsoever.

 

[farmerfred86]

We do really

What we really need is new versions of glyphosate. There was a company working on a sugar based total herbicide. If we had a choice of multiple (and cheap) broad spectrum herbicides the pressure would come off the product.

What I can't see is where it would leave contract farming. I suppose like anything society adjusts in time...

 

[davieh3350]

Buy the books of frank Newton Turner. Especially fertility farming. It’s still in print. Try it. We found it a real revelation.
Back in the 1940s he was growing cover crops and weeds in between crops to make organic matter in the soil and then disc Harrow the lot back in. No ploughing involved and he had above avg yields without any man made sprays or fert.
Undoubtedly cropping is/will change/ing . We can either moan on about it or we can learn from and adapt systems from a pre sprays age to met the demands of today.

Great book.

 

[cquick]

What we really need is new versions of glyphosate. There was a company working on a sugar based total herbicide. If we had a choice of multiple (and cheap) broad spectrum herbicides the pressure would come off the product.

What I can't see is where it would leave contract farming. I suppose like anything society adjusts in time...

I would bet money that there is a total herbicide sitting on the shelf somewhere at Bayer, BASF, et al., waiting for the opportunity of Glyphosate being banned before it gets patented. They'll make farmers sweat for a few years while it goes through approval, to drive home its value, and then enjoy a good 10 years of monopolistic pricing.

 

[czechmate]

I've got some that I've had for years and it still works. It lasts a long time when it's been mixed as well.

I’ve had some mixed over winter in a knapsack before. Yes it works ok but it smells horrid

 

[farmerfred86]

I would bet money that there is a total herbicide sitting on the shelf somewhere at Bayer, BASF, et al., waiting for the opportunity of Glyphosate being banned before it gets patented. They'll make farmers sweat for a few years while it goes through approval, to drive home its value, and then enjoy a good 10 years of monopolistic pricing.

this is the problem... If we already had those products it would protect glyphosate.
I think in places like Australia they already have a policy of applying roundup with another product to help protect it.

 

[Clive]

i bet there are glyphosate alternatives ready to register

i find it interesting most ag chem companies seem not over bothered about loosing it, the panic is all from farmers

apparently its hard to make money from off patent actives

 

[Nick Adams]

Mixed farming and sound rotations including a grass ley length appropriate to soil type.

It's all being done by someone and been done before.

 

[Chickcatcher]

Been reading a book "General view of the Agriculture of the County Of Hertfordshire 1804". County report to the Board of Agriculture IN this report there is the mention of 2 problem weeds which are attempted to be controlled by a "Fallow" they were "Couch grass and Blackgrass"

 

[Lazy Sod]

I've seen it done, a summer fallow used to be quite a common practice. Plough during the winter/early spring and cultivate it frequently and drill it in the autumn. If the field was in grass, an early silage cut or hay could be taken and then do it. That was known as a "barsteward fallow", I did it in 1965. We had just bought a new Bomford Superflow chisel plough. Both ways with that and then a spring tine cultivator. Wheat drilled in September.

Edit: I did not write barsteward. Lets see if we can defeat the swear filter with baastard, I am in the west country after all. Haha

 

[gatepost]

so what happens when roundup, glyphoshate becomes useless ? the weeds that are continually sprayed, ie blackgrass become resistant to it ? we learn over the years that wonder products that are used all the time to treat things such as antibiotics, wormers, rait baits etc, by using them the very thing that you are using them against in a short time starts to evolve into a restant strain ? so when i read that in min till you create false seedbeds to encourage say blackgrass to germinate then spray off with glyphospate, often multiple times what happens when the glyphoshate starts not to work ?

folk ploughed slowly and had a rotation which involved grass and livestock, basically. Also did a lot of grain cleaning! mother in law's father had a brewery and used to take in the locals grain to dry and clean, always laughted at one lot ton in 10cwt of grain back.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I've seen it done, a summer fallow used to be quite a common practice. Plough during the winter/early spring and cultivate it frequently and drill it in the autumn. If the field was in grass, an early silage cut or hay could be taken and then do it. That was known as a "barsteward fallow", I did it in 1965. We had just bought a new Bomford Superflow chisel plough. Both ways with that and then a spring tine cultivator. Wheat drilled in September.

Edit: I did not write barsteward. Lets see if we can defeat the swear filter with baastard, I am in the west country after all. Haha

Really effiecient and easier to put up Good fencing temporary and permanent , (which is one thing I doubt they had in 1804 ) means more useful / tighter stock grazing.
Couch and black grass arent a problem on a livestock esp. Sheep or mixed farm.


Infact I wish I had some atm to graze as thers not a lot of anything else....