Unexplained cattle deaths

[S J H]

It's a stupid question. Come back with a diagnosis and ask how people have dealt with it etc. That is helpful.

Also remember anthrax and sudden death.

Sudden death is a bit of a coincidence isn't it?

 

[dinderleat]

No didn't eat them I'm a vegetarian only eat vegetarian's lamb and beef

 

[Kevtherev]

Best bit of advice so far goes to @rc mx110

 

[kill]

Bad time of year now for cattle.

And that's why housing cattle is a good thing except it's a little to mild indoors maybes.
Has Blackleg been totally ruled out????

 

[bovine]

it could have been with 3 post mortems earlier.....

 

[mtx.jag]

Twas on a year or so ago think it was a short series about young farmers. Dad went away on holiday leaving lass in charge and the sucklers started dying with staggers. She coped well. There was a thread about it at the time

She was a member on here for a while..

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Its a job, agree with above post, but equally if you get an inconclusive post mortem a waste of money. Its a sign of how far the industry has fallen behind, be lovely to vaccinate all cattle with hep v to rule out those losses which bizarrely seem more common, and to vaccinate calves against pneumonia which people seem to struggle with, as footvaxing sheep, copius minerals, have a herd health check, but most seem to be struggling to break even anyway, hopefully not down to losing ridiculous amounts of animals, for many margins are tight to say the least, so initial point more than valid to try and get cheap answer. Can spend as much as you like on improvements, preventions, immunity etc etc but is balance and justification. I don't jab my early uncrept lambs, will admit I always lose 2, always when they are marked to go that week, flippin annoying losing lambs when they look their best, would it cover the cost of vaccine, no, time as well. All judgement and balance in my opinion

 

[charlie77]

Let me get my crystal ball

Need a post mortem. This thread is entirely pointless.

Has anyone ever had a conclusive answer from a post mortom? Used to send them until I realised it was a waste of time

 

[charlie77]

Lets hope someone rams it up your fudgeing arse

I agree

 

[bovine]

I have said - around 80% should have a diagnosis.

Even if you don't get the exact cause of death then there is a lot of useful information gathered.

I would bet a lot of money that 3 fresh dead sudden deaths would have a clear cause of death. I'd put the odds with 3 animals of near 100% chance of a diagnosis - 90% that I could tell you there and then.

 

[milkloss]

I know Bo Bo is very keen on the PM malarkey but it seems many posters, me included, have been quite disillusioned by the pms they've had done. Waste of time and money very often and the issues are usually resolved when they think they've worked out what's is wrong, maybe.

 

[Blaithin]

Does anyone ever get anything concrete back from a PM though? We had a few sudden deaths a few years ago-different cow groups, different stages of lactation, one dry, etc
Maybe it was just coincidence that they died at similar times, but all we got back was hypotheses
The first thing they test for is anthrax with sudden death though-which should be before the carcase moves off farm.

Had to PM everything that died at the feedlot. Was a very interesting job, I quite liked it.

I'd say 90% (made up number for representational purposes ) I was able to see cause of death. Other things like nervous issues, cocci and those forever poor doers that you just knew you'd have to put down one day would come back as no visual cause. I could pick those ones out as they're usually the most obviously dying ones but no obvious reason upon PM.

We didn't run labs on any.

All diagnosing was done via me taking photos of about 7 different things and the vets would diagnose based on those. If a person personally PMs an animal and looks at those same areas they'll usually find something even if they don't end up with a vet speak diagnoses.

 

[RushesToo]

Lot's of these things are experience. The way I look at it the more the man on the ground can solve the problem the more time the experts have to get to the bottom of the more difficult ones.
So too much rich grass, no magnesium, shared here will save stock [this is good] save money [also good] and leave more in the pot for doing the more difficult things.

Experience - the first child sniffles - off to the hospital, a third of fourth is lucky to get paracetamol. This place is to help you get knowledge sooner and concentrate on the difficult things.

The normally brilliant @bovine who is so generous with knowledge is below par tonight, but everyone has an off night and get's fed up with Jo Public

Share the knowledge, get the experience without the pain so that you have the money to call in the @bovine 's when you really need their knowledge -most of which we don't see here.

 

[neilo]

Has anyone ever had a conclusive answer from a post mortom? Used to send them until I realised it was a waste of time

Yes, many times over the years, not that I send anything off until I know I have a problem I need help with. Getting a PM done on the first animal that dies would have you in the poor house in no time.

 

[marco]

theres always one, but rarely three

 

[Archie]

Unfortunately we lost a cow she went down with staggers whilst calving three weeks back
Broke her pelvis and killed calf as it was half way out
Been feeding straw in ring feeders since
They have mag lick buckets but there's been a real flush of autumn grass which is wet and passes through the cow very quickly
Just my thoughts, I am no expert!

Always been under the impression staggers was an Autumn as well as Spring problem so put out high mag tubs at turnout as well from mid September to housing.
Certainly what the SAC technical notes have advised for as long as I can remember.

 

[bovine]

theres always one, but rarely three

That's the thing with this case - 3 dead animals. What value are you going to put on them - many thousands of pounds (£5000 reasonable?)

Yet some people think spending maybe a couple of hundred pounds getting the vet out to open them up, probably find the COD and collect samples if needed is somehow wasted. Yet you will go and spend possibly more money messing about with minerals they might not need etc.

It's times like this I get so frustrated with farmers. No one can offer any sensible help other than do a PM. Anything else is bad advice, wasting money, wasting time.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

We don't actually put out mag in spring, but do in autumn. Autumn calvers go out to a field with buckets in, religious, moved some spring calvers that were running out of grub onto a field that had been grazed hard couple of months back and should be some plentiful lush stuff for ewe lambs, lack of rain means not the case, but one went down, got her around but more luck that randomly went to field for a different reason and caught very early

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Not picking a fight @bovine , or ganging up as seems to be the case. But to say other than doing a PM, is bad advice or waste of money is an exaggeration? If someone says on here when lambs are thriving and nearly fit and they lose a few and they have not given ovivac / heptavac, surely a fair assumption pulpey, ok far from guaranteed as if no mag buckets out and a cow is on side with legs kicking or found dead with grass soiled from legs flailing isn't, but as I said earlier, people are struggling, and I will take on board bad advice or guessing a false economy, but some things can be answered and avoid an extra cost. Out of interest, what is the accepted loss of calves from sucklers to weaning? Lambing ewe lambs to selling as shearlings? I will probably be shot down, calve 240, lost 3 calves, lambed 1300 ewe lambs, summer mastitis, on back etc and random should have been PM I lost 21, lambing I would lose a lot of lambs but all go out with one which is what I want. Cows, 2 a year?

 

[puppet]

As well as a PM is there any point in testing some of the live ones. Metabolic problems not showing up once you are dead . Just because there is something visible to the naked eye that does not mean it was the cause of death. I had 3 lambs die within 30 minutes of being given antibiotics by vet for footrot. They were all collapsed within 2 minutes even before we had finished the other 6. Had to carry them out of the trailer once home. Obviously anaphylactic shock but the PM showed a few lesions in the liver, brain and some worms. Conclusion was that the 'stress'of moving them had finished them off. An hour earlier you could hardly have caught one they were so lively. No compensation for the losses was then offered.