Walpole Grimsby pylon , survey access.

[wr.]

There's an air valve pissing water out ,has been for almost a year local water authority have said a hard-core road needs laying in a field to access it . It's no more than 10m from an easy access point in a layby, then scaffold Tower over ditch .
It's going to cost ££££ and probably take a week .
Could be done in a day or max 2 ..
Utilities and government projects have no concept of efficient use of funds or time.
Money grows on trees for them

We have the same here so we've caught the water into a cattle trough and the excess into an adjoining ditch. It's free water until they come to fix it though it's been leaking for nearly thirty years.

 

[Oliveau]

There's an air valve pissing water out ,has been for almost a year local water authority have said a hard-core road needs laying in a field to access it . It's no more than 10m from an easy access point in a layby, then scaffold Tower over ditch .
It's going to cost ££££ and probably take a week .
Could be done in a day or max 2 ..
Utilities and government projects have no concept of efficient use of funds or time.
Money grows on trees for them

It’s not that. The issue is that all the old experienced ‘greybeards’ have long since taken to the hills, and the new generation of ‘engineers’ despite having ‘qualifications’ have no practical experience of how to actually get jobs done.
Me, I’d get a mini digger in and temporarily bridge the ditch, make a gap in the hedge/fence, do the repair then reinstate. 2 days max.
I speak as one of the afore-mentioned greybeards……..

 

[steveR]

Dalcour maclaren.
They tell you what they plan to do under the licence non intrusive ,but add the all encompassing phrase "but not limited to " I read that as they would use this phrase to say I've agreed to whatever else they decide they want to do even tho they havnt listed it.

Had dealings with this crowd before now. If you shake on something, count fingers afterwards....

 

[steveR]

Think the phrase used was will.pay agents reasonable fees upto £250.

Under an Hours work then.....

 

[steveR]

I don’t believe that they can impose a cap on reasonable fees!

Well, they will try it on I am sure.

A good Agent will soon put them straight.....

 

[steveR]

It’s not that. The issue is that all the old experienced ‘greybeards’ have long since taken to the hills, and the new generation of ‘engineers’ despite having ‘qualifications’ have no practical experience of how to actually get jobs done.
Me, I’d get a mini digger in and temporarily bridge the ditch, make a gap in the hedge/fence, do the repair then reinstate. 2 days max.
I speak as one of the afore-mentioned greybeards……..

Exactly the same problem as soon as you speak with Councils...

Highways and Drainage are seemingly populated by kids with zero experience and zero idea, so they rely on Contractors who too often take the pee...

It was interesting a few years back when the Solar farm was built here, The Company building it had a fair number of ex-servicemen knocking about. There was a problem with access over a ditch here and the on chap appeared and gave me a call, I popped down and 10mins later the "insurmountable problem" had been looked at and a solution arrived at. He was ex Royal Engineers and had an excellent "can do" attitude and I told him so. His response was that he found most Farmers had the same approach to problem solving

 

[Boomerang]

Also got an access road ,( access is used by another business as awell )that's a stopped up old highway , I now own from white line to my property, highways white line to the bund area that's creeping on to access road, they have cut it back before ,but are now saying it's nothing to do with them , it's councils , I've provided paperwork detailing their responsibility from their solicitor when road was stopped up.
Their excuse now is its not important, not dangerous, lack of resources, and refuse to do anything ,barstewards .
I'm not done with them yet .

 

[Forkdriver]

It's a long time since I worked there, but try Fisher German. I would contact the head office in Ashby de la Zouch and ask for the Utilities & Infrastructure dept. 1530 4120821
The overall gaffer of that dept. is Clare Phillipson - she doesn't take prisoners!
There are agents and agents - Some will do their best for clients, but others are only interested in the fee. [I could tell some stories, but I won't].
Is the package on offer direct from NG or from their agents? If the latter who is acting for them?
I wouldn't worry so much about their threat of 'Statutory Powers' as you will be entitled to compensation whatever the scenario. I don't like the fact that already a threat has been issued up front. What with that and an early return of licence payment it sounds as though they are desperate to start.
I don't much like the sound of a fixed fee for a survey licence as a licence once granted could allow all and sundry to tramp over your land whenever they wish! This needs tying down much more tightly to agree dates, times and points of access and to state what 'survey' work they want to do, which could be anything from a simple 'bats and badgers' study to a fill blown 'let's go and dig several bloody great trial pits'

Perhaps I ought to come out of retirement!

Fisher German act for a lot of the major utilities these days. Dalcours only act for the utilities. Nothing would persuade me to come out of retirement.
If you want a real chancer who only acts against utilities then Mark Ferguson is not that far away. Mark Ferguson Ltd.

 

[Oliveau]

Fisher German act for a lot of the major utilities these days. Dalcours only act for the utilities. Nothing would persuade me to come out of retirement.
If you want a real chancer who only acts against utilities then Mark Ferguson is not that far away. Mark Ferguson Ltd.

I would come out of retirement for a while! I miss the buzz.

 

[Oliveau]

I have had this recommendation from Fisher German:

Matthew Willoughby MRICS
Bishops Manor
Market Place
Howden
East Yorkshire
DN14 7BL

Tel: 01430 331333

Mob: 07305 079740

Website: www.townendcleggagriculture.co.uk


Matthew has worked extensively on NG projects before leaving FG and is instructed for others on the same scheme.

 

[nick...]

We have all this going on for Norwich to tilbury line.have an agent as they seem to know the rules.had a few surveys for the most ridiculous things and after a few I banned access for all surveys.had people just appear for surveys and they are told to leave too.I eventually had an order against me so when I know they are coming my neighbour hassles them and tell them to leave which they rapidly do.all the surveyors tell that they get major greif wherever they go so it’s not just me.been waiting for test hole surveyors to appear so now got a locked gate at road end of driveway stopping access.I’m sure there will be civil unrest when things start happening.there are big groups on Facebook fighting it too.fisher German are representing national grid and are not really very helpful.
nick…

 

[Oliveau]

Nick
As someone who used to work for FG it saddens me that you say that they are not really helpful.
However, in the pipeline/utilities industry I have to say that often things are client directed and the appointed land agents have to follow the the client's wishes.
Some clients are amenable to direction and advice from their land agents, some are not.
For example, I had several years with South West Water where I was the Estates man for several trunk main renewal or relining projects. Some of us old greybeards would act as 'policemen' to ensure that engineers & contractors followed the Code of Practice. Fortunately the SWW project manager who ran my projects over a 5 year span would listen to my views and implement them. I would issue survey Notices in advance of construction to cover walking surveys [Environmental and archaelogy.] Further survey notices would be issued to affected landowners if trial holes/boreholes and archaeological digs were needed. All such personnel were given the landowners contact details and instructed to talk to farmers BEFORE entering the land.
On the other hand I got parachuted into a big Yorkshire Water pipeline scheme when construction was about to start. YW had allowed thair engineering consultants to make contact with affected farmers and to issue the Notices. When I finally got hold of the landowner files after several months they did not include copies of the Notices and plans. There ensued a hectic few weeks when I found the airvalves and washouts were being installed for which Notice had not been given, and landowners had not been consulted. I had to pay out thousands because the contractors needed various access points, which had not been agreed beforehand and covered by the Notice - A local agent had a field day with me and we never saw eye to eye!
So, it all comes down to preparation on the part of the Utility. Sadly I fear that reading from the above from Nick and the OP about access for surveys that NG have not thought the job out properly, and may not be following their agents advice.
Somtimes agents and Agricultural Liaison Officers on the ground have their hands tied by their clients,..........

 

[teslacoils]

FG are agents for a gas pipeline across my farm. They are entirely clueless and unhelpful, to the extent where it is clear than either they or their client hasnt read or understood the legal agreement of the original pipe installation.

Ive never had an issue with statutory undertakers accessing land for various things when they give notice; ask nicely; and are aware of farming reasons why it may be more appropriate to do things at different times. But with this lot, the idea of them changing their work schedule elicits the same reaction as suggesting punching a baby in the face. Queue my having to tow their vehicles out on several occasions etc. Their "if you dont let us we will....." attitude simply put my back up and has led to a complete stonewalling of them.

In contrast, the folk from Northern Powergrid are courteous and polite, give notice and appreciate it may not always be possible to do what they want on the day they want. In return they get to store stuff in my yard; cups of tea made; gates opened in advance etc.

Im currently in the end phase of a lot of surveys on my land for a different project and, in the main, they have gone well with advance notice and an expected schedule. I put this down to good planning and communication well in advance.

 

[steveR]

I would come out of retirement for a while! I miss the buzz.

Now's your chance "Old fella"

Nice few quid to top up the pension pot, paid for by NG!!

 

[Oliveau]

FG are agents for a gas pipeline across my farm. They are entirely clueless and unhelpful, to the extent where it is clear than either they or their client hasnt read or understood the legal agreement of the original pipe installation.

Ive never had an issue with statutory undertakers accessing land for various things when they give notice; ask nicely; and are aware of farming reasons why it may be more appropriate to do things at different times. But with this lot, the idea of them changing their work schedule elicits the same reaction as suggesting punching a baby in the face. Queue my having to tow their vehicles out on several occasions etc. Their "if you dont let us we will....." attitude simply put my back up and has led to a complete stonewalling of them.

I assume that this is a BG Transco pipeline. Is it perchance the one that runs south from Lincoln [Hatton- Silk Wiloughby, constructed about 20 years ago}?
I'm curious as to whether your issue is with the land agents or the pipeline maintenance contractors? You refer to towing stuck vehicles which makes it sound as though it was contractors rather than land agents on site.
Nevertheless, despite the easement giving rights of unlimited access to the apparatus, that doesn't excuse a lack of common courtesy.

 

[teslacoils]

I assume that this is a BG Transco pipeline. Is it perchance the one that runs south from Lincoln [Hatton- Silk Wiloughby, constructed about 20 years ago}?
I'm curious as to whether your issue is with the land agents or the pipeline maintenance contractors? You refer to towing stuck vehicles which makes it sound as though it was contractors rather than land agents on site.
Nevertheless, despite the easement giving rights of unlimited access to the apparatus, that doesn't excuse a lack of common courtesy.

It's a uniper pipe, one of a pair that run parallel. The old one is metal and our in in the 60s, and is fine. The newer one put in maybe early 2000s is plastic and a shambles.

It's entirely with FG. The pipe, being metal, cannot be adequately checked for depth. Or location. The pipe has a remedial land drain at both sides. FG refuse to countenance that these drains must be outside their easement area (as laid) and therefore their pipe must be somewhere within the metal pipe and the land drain.

They also don't understand that if their pipe has become more shallow eg in ditch crossings etc, then this is *their* problem and not mine.

Pulling vehicles out was due to the line inspector being new. It's the no ends at FG that are the problem - a similar pipe going across another part of the farm with a different line team causes no hassle.

You'd not believe the lack of communication and comedy to do simple tasks like ditching, mole ploughing etc.

 

[Oliveau]

I have only ever worked in the South, on GPSS and Esso pipelines, so I am not familiar with the Unipen system.
But I seem to remember from Linewatch that to carry out moling and ditching over a pipeline the presence of an inspector is required?
There ought to be a concrete protection slab over the pipe in a ditch crossing.
Surely the plastic pipe was laid with a marker tape so that the pipeline could be CAT detected?

 

[pipestretcher]

Just had paperwork through national grid want access tor surveys , just bods on foot at this time.
They want us to grant a license for them to survey will pay £500 plus £250 if license papers returned promptly. They also say they will access anyway under statutory papers if we refuse.
Is the £500 a reasonable offer ,but a take it or we will come anyway , negotiable or not.
Was hoping to avoid this altogether but seems luck isn't on my side.

Any more thoughts on this? I spoke to two agents, one said worth getting an agent & one don't bother at this stage.(he didn't think you would negotiate any more out of them). I'm against the over ground scheme so not minded to take the cash & sign the license. Have you signed?

 

[Boomerang]

I emailed delcour mclaren, re wording of licence as 'not limited to 'could cover a multitude of options ,
I also asked for confirmation that NO EXCAVATIONS were permitted under this agreement.
They confirmed this to be the case . A separate agreement is needed to dig inspection pits.
They have mildly threatened to use statutory powers if refuse to allow survey in original correspondence so we can be difficult but won't stop them . May as well take the £500.
I attended local MP meeting other day, nothing new , it will be 5 years before they can apply for planning consent.
I have decided NOT to engage an agent at this time , will agree to survey and play it by ear.
As the actual route of pylons is not publicly defined (although I believe they know exactly where they are going )
It's possible they may not survey me at all. I have 2 fields on the edge of the dark blue corridor ( dark blue is most likely route) but both of those have a National grid gas pipeline through them, so I'd be very surprised if they went anywhere near that ,but who knows.

 

[teslacoils]

I have only ever worked in the South, on GPSS and Esso pipelines, so I am not familiar with the Unipen system.
But I seem to remember from Linewatch that to carry out moling and ditching over a pipeline the presence of an inspector is required?
There ought to be a concrete protection slab over the pipe in a ditch crossing.
Surely the plastic pipe was laid with a marker tape so that the pipeline could be CAT detected?

Ditching yes. And we always get it. Hilariously, they don't always pass on the message, so when the helicopter lands to give the bollocking, and the inspector is there, then its quite funny. Moling too, we always tell them that we are going to do it. They get very excited and say we cant. But usually a nice chat where their lease of the subsoil below 1.2m is shown to be well under the 45cm / 50cm mole depth they stop.

There is no protection. The ditches here are roughly 2.5m to 3m deep, and in some places there is under 4" of cover to the pipe. Which is why they are excited. Regular ditching and moling is normal farming practise, and im more than happy to let them come with shovels and clear it, or use the digger themselves. They have been talking about coming and putting some kind of protective mat over the ditch section, which I think is a great idea. But they have talked about it for 3 years now.

Amazingly, there is apparently no way for them to detect the depth of the plastic pipe. Or its location. Nor will they accept happily the gyophysics survey which clearly shows the drains to either side as suitable bounds. Both drains were lain in land that is outside their easement, to enable its maintainance. Referring to the lease terms, should there pipe have miraculously lifted itself, then they will need to apply for a deed of variation and pay the compensation. Their view that *I should pay for test digs to ascertain *their* pipe depth have not gone down well.

They just like being difficult. The stance is that "its there now, you have to follow our rules" is a bit poor, and actually *they* will follow the terms of their lease, as will I.