Water pooling

Discussion in 'Direct Drilling General Discussion' started by jonnyjon, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. jonnyjon

    jonnyjon Member

    Have noticed fields that were ploughed and combicrop drilled after roots, into what I once thought was perfect seedbeds, crops were lifted in lovely dry conditions, they are now lying in pools of slop after a bit of rain. I can walk in my d d fields in short boots and hardly any soil sticks. If there was any doubt that tillage wrecks soil structure, this must prove it?
     
    Farmer Roy, Brisel and Will Blackburn like this.
  2. Will Blackburn

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Slumping.
     
    Brisel likes this.
  3. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    I saw a neighbour’s field on clay next to Jeff Claydon’s. Jeff strip tilled his and the neighbour put his in with a combination drill and looked terrible with ponding despite a cracking seedbed. Jeff made plenty of advertising capital out of that and now I have a Hybrid drill!

    @farmingfred had a picture of his Cross Slot sown field next to a neighbour’s min till. In heavy rain the min till had bad surface run off but the DD had no damage at all.
     
    Farmer Roy likes this.
  4. tr250

    tr250 Member

    Location:
    Northants
    I just can't believe people have puddling we are still pretty dry here had 7mm last night and 2mm today before that you could walk our fields in your shoes
     
  5. bobk

    bobk Member

    Location:
    stafford
    You anna cut it off yet .
     
  6. topless_matt

    topless_matt Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    Power narrows are the devil in terms of helping soil structure. All they do is break it down its too small a size aggregate which then stops filtration as it is no longer full of pores and natural fissures. I expect it is bone dry at the bottom of the plough depth where the structure is good again.
     
  7. I dont even know why people think ground up brown soil is a good seedbed anyway
     
    Farmer Roy, Will Blackburn and Fish like this.
  8. DrWazzock

    DrWazzock Member

    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Aye right. I left a small bit of the beet field unploughed and direct drilled it to see what would happen. It's under water, yet dry underneath. The rest of the field which we ploughed, power harrowed lightly at 15mph and drilled with the Unidrill is fine. Land after a root harvest is entirely a different matter to land after a cereal harvest. A lot more tackier wheelings.

    I didn't use a power Harrow combi however. Went off the idea when realised the weight those things put on the tractor wheels. Better spreading the weight across the full width, as the Unidrill does, and power harrowing in front with a very light tractor and power Harrow with duals on just for levelling and consolidation really.

    It's a fickle business alright.
     
  9. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    Seed to soil contact.
     
    Kevtherev and Bury the Trash like this.
  10. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    The tight layer will be on the surface. After winter lifted beet I’d always plough and drill with a combi. Looks great on top but the water would pool at the bottom of the ploughed layer. The best way we found was to fit mini subsoiler brackets to the mouldboards to penetrate the furrow bottom. Never tried direct drilling after beet lifted in wet weather and I wouldn’t recommend it either. The harvester weighed 25+ tonnes and the carts were 30+tonnes
     
    Flat 10 likes this.
  11. Will Blackburn

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Unfortunately the soil damage with root crops starts with their establishment, harvesting just allows it to be seen.

    A few years back I ploughed a field after maize, it got wet, eventually i tried to unidrill straight in. It didn't really go so the rest got combied in. The unidrill bit was the only bit that established, the rest slumped and water logged.
     
  12. tr250

    tr250 Member

    Location:
    Northants
    I'd say direct drilling if the soil is in good condition ie consolidated not compacted it should act like permanent pasture and puddle straight after heavy rain but within a day so so take the water and travel quicker than the cultivated
     
    Will Blackburn likes this.
  13. DrWazzock

    DrWazzock Member

    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    I agree that the best way is to leave soil undisturbed and naturally structured in normal circumstances but the conditions after roots aren't normal. My life would easier without them. Really the best way is to leave it till spring, subsoil to relieve the compaction and drill more or less straight in when it's dry enough. But this misses the opportunity to get winter wheat in after a break.

    Not a big fan of power harrows either but usually things I go wrong because people go much too slowly and much too deep. They only need to tickling the surface, levelling it a bit and consolidating a bit. I usually power harrow at at least 8k.
     
    Flat 10 and Michael S like this.
  14. why not grow spring barley planted in good conditions after beet
    then winter wheat although not a first cereal it is not a true second wheat
    the spring barley will be a better margin than if it was after a cereal giving a overall margin that may be better than a poor wheat crop if weather is against late wheat

    I have found that if forced to plant 1st wheat later or emerged later due to dry autumn and dried out seedbed then takeall in the second wheat after is not a severe as after a mid September wheat the same would aply to wheat after spring barley

    as a student the rotation on a mixed beef farm in dorset was grass ley followed by spring barley followed by 2 wheats then spring barley undersown worked very well with a spread of work and lower fixed costs
     
  15. DrWazzock

    DrWazzock Member

    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    That makes sense. Take all was the main worry with wheat after spring barley, but maybe with a decent seed dressing as well it would be OK after spring barley.

    But in actual fact the light land here where we grow the roots isn't really good wheat land at all as it usually burns out so maybe dropping it from the light land rotation would be better.
     
  16. I have heavy land so cannot grow roots but for bad bg field spring barley after spring beans after spring barley is a good option
    Not every spring is like this one it averages out we Usually have good spring crops after a wet summer/wet autumn
    2013 spring barley and spring rape made as much money as winter crops
    With much lower cost
    Late drilled spring barley needs very little chemical imput
     
    DrWazzock likes this.
  17. Why plough after spuds ..?. Was it wet and paddled to death , and needed to bring dry fresh soil up , Would not blame combi drill ,more likely bed tilled to destruction then separator through it , you have just destroyed any structure , then you plough all the fines down and seal it up , , just pull low disturbance subsoiler through it or shakerator , if reasonably dry ,plough would be last resort , and combi in 540 just to level a bit not to muller it ,getting a tined drill mate for this very job , @Brisel had new euro tiger last week 65 ton loaded ,and lifted some with 3 row , ploughed it to bury tops from swans 11 lt an hour less fuel ,with old 3 row When ploughing
     
    Flat 10 and Brisel like this.
  18. jonnyjon

    jonnyjon Member

    Ploughed fields are not my fields thankfully, any over tilled soils turn to muck when they get wet whatever the type of tillage
     
  19. DrWazzock

    DrWazzock Member

    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    If the next field of harvested beet, which is mostly light land, is still dry enough underneath I might Paraplow and drill, or I might just drill. The sheep are going on as a mob to eat the tops though.

    If the weather gets too wet it will be left to spring and barley.
     
  20. jack6480

    jack6480 Member

    Location:
    south lancs!
    I find that min tilled or ploughed ground after heavy rain goes solid or sloppy even when you think you’ve made a lovely seed bed on light land. Direct drilled doesn’t seem to do this
     

Share This Page