What is wrong with this lamb?

[Grem]

Good Morning. As the title says, what is wrong with this lamb? The lamb was 24hrs old when I took the video last night. The ewe had had a slight sticky, clear discharge for the 12 hrs prior to lambing. The first lamb was breach and dead, this was the second lamb. It was covered in meconium when born but was 'bright eyed and bushy tailed', although didn't attempt to stand for half an hour. As you can see in the video, it can't stand. It feels like it has rigour - real case of the living dead!
I have only lived and worked on the farm for a couple of years, but there has been several similar cases over the years. Some make it, some don't.
We have also had 2 ewes ( 1 last and 1 this year, so far) who have given birth naturally in the morning and then produced more lambs in the afternoon/evening. This year - a single in the morning (naturally), 12 hours later a dead one (naturally) followed by an assisted live one.
Last year 2 (naturally) 8 hours apart. Can ewes hold onto the lambs until they feel safe?


Tried to upload a video but can't make it work? Can anyone help please? The video is in IMG format.

 

[liammogs]

Guessing you don't scan your ewes?

 

[Grem]

Guessing you don't scan your ewes?

Owner claims it is too expensive and 'they often get it wrong'. That's why so many farmers do it!!

 

[liammogs]

Owner claims it is too expensive and 'they often get it wrong'. That's why so many farmers do it!!

Well if that's the case, if there assisting ewes to lamb, when they have pulled the first lamb why ain't they sticking there hand in to see if there's any more?

These days I see scaning can help improve welfare, you feed the twins more to aid the ewe and to have stronger lambs, while keeping singles tight to ensure they have a easier lambing!

If they think it's a waste of money or too expensive maybe he should turn to keeping store lambs instead of lambing ewes?

 

[Grem]

Well if that's the case, if there assisting ewes to lamb, when they have pulled the first lamb why ain't they sticking there hand in to see if there's any more?

These days I see scaning can help improve welfare, you feed the twins more to aid the ewe and to have stronger lambs, while keeping singles tight to ensure they have a easier lambing!

If they think it's a waste of money or too expensive maybe he should turn to keeping store lambs instead of lambing ewes?

If the first lamb is assisted then we do check for more, but (as in these cases) the ewe gave birth naturally and then showed no more signs of lambing it wasn't felt necessary. It doesn't seem good practice to check every ewe that has lambed naturally.

 

[liammogs]

If the first lamb is assisted then we do check for more, but (as in these cases) the ewe gave birth naturally and then showed no more signs of lambing it wasn't felt necessary. It doesn't seem good practice to check every ewe that has lambed naturally.

Are they lambing inside? Thats what scanning can aid with, could be a trace element problem

 

[Grem]

Are they lambing inside? Thats what scanning can aid with, could be a trace element problem

They do lamb inside but go out in the day. They are fed ewe nuts (although I don't think quite enough. We started feeding at the beginning of Dec and quantities have remained the same), ad lib hay and have Rumevite high energy licks of which they devour nearly 2 a night between 50 ewes.
99.9% of ewes survive ok but do lose weight, which the owner thinks is normal. Having had a much smaller flock I know this doesn't HAVE to be the case.

 

[Man_in_black]

With best will in the world @Grem you sound more clued up than the owner. Sit him down, have a serious talk & if you can't come to an agreement then I'd seek employment elsewhere. It'll only reflect badly on you as the shepherd & it'll make you feel shiťty if your losing lambs & ewes that you know just needed better flock management.

 

[liammogs]

They do lamb inside but go out in the day. They are fed ewe nuts (although I don't think quite enough. We started feeding at the beginning of Dec and quantities have remained the same), ad lib hay and have Rumevite high energy licks of which they devour nearly 2 a night between 50 ewes.
99.9% of ewes survive ok but do lose weight, which the owner thinks is normal. Having had a much smaller flock I know this doesn't HAVE to be the case.

So he rathers throw money with cake and blocks but won't justify scanning? Barren ewes will only get fatter, 1 or 2 barren ewes (breed depending) could more than pay for scanning the whole flock

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So he rathers throw money with cake and blocks but won't justify scanning? Barren ewes will only get fatter, 1 or 2 barren ewes (breed depending) could more than pay for scanning the whole flock

We all know the type....

 

[cheviot53]

The ewe having a clear discharge reads like she started lambing then the lamb got stuck being breech and she stopped pushing , so the second lamb got held back for to long and may have taken in toxins via the placenta . The ewes holding on to the lambs are probably a min 'vit imbalance as this is far from normal , you can check for more lambs without putting a hand inside ,you just push on her stomach and you can feel more lambs or stand above her facing her tail and cup your hands under her stomach and gently lift . Your sheep are eating approx. 90gms of crystalix per day when the recommended amount is 30-70 gms per day this is costing circa 90p per ewe per day , more nuts would be cheaper . Not scanning on a small flock is not a problem so long as you are continually condition scoring and feeding accordingly . I think blood tests are something you need to be doing NOW

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Scanning is great but I object to the inclination that those that don't are worse farmers or have lower welfare standards.
The circumstances described by the OP is just one of those things.
Depending on how long the lamb had been dead, or what caused its death, it could have already 'infected/affected' the living lamb and its death could have been inevitable or maybe prevented by AB's at birth which really shouldn't be administered without good reason.
It is unusual to have secondary births delayed by such a long time but it happens.
Is it possible that the first lamb was incorrectly attributed to the ewe?
I've had a ewe, lamb a week after going out to the field with 'its' lambs.

 

[Al R]

It isn’t that uncommon to have a ewe lamb 17 days apart but I’ve never seen it but have heard of it.
I couldn’t imagine not scanning. 50 ewes might cost you £1/ewe to do?
I take it their not bolus’d if their going through that much minerals, my current twin/triplet lambers made up of charolais/texel ewes so are big things have gone through 1.5 mineral blocks in 8 weeks, there was 36 of them.

What county are you in? People are always looking for part time/full time help from people experienced with sheep!

To me scanning is the most important task I do like many other people say..

 

[Grem]

Scanning is great but I object to the inclination that those that don't are worse farmers or have lower welfare standards.
The circumstances described by the OP is just one of those things.
Depending on how long the lamb had been dead, or what caused its death, it could have already 'infected/affected' the living lamb and its death could have been inevitable or maybe prevented by AB's at birth which really shouldn't be administered without good reason.
It is unusual to have secondary births delayed by such a long time but it happens.
Is it possible that the first lamb was incorrectly attributed to the ewe?
I've had a ewe, lamb a week after going out to the field with 'its' lambs.

Definitely her lamb as I delivered the dead one and then the live one. The other ewe

It isn’t that uncommon to have a ewe lamb 17 days apart but I’ve never seen it but have heard of it.
I couldn’t imagine not scanning. 50 ewes might cost you £1/ewe to do?
I take it their not bolus’d if their going through that much minerals, my current twin/triplet lambers made up of charolais/texel ewes so are big things have gone through 1.5 mineral blocks in 8 weeks, there was 36 of them.

What county are you in? People are always looking for part time/full time help from people experienced with sheep!

To me scanning is the most important task I do like many other people say..

I'm in Wales. I agree re the cost of scanning v the cost of feeding empty ewes. but at the end of the day it isn't me that loses out, apart from being frustrated.

 

[Grem]

Scanning is great but I object to the inclination that those that don't are worse farmers or have lower welfare standards.
The circumstances described by the OP is just one of those things.
Depending on how long the lamb had been dead, or what caused its death, it could have already 'infected/affected' the living lamb and its death could have been inevitable or maybe prevented by AB's at birth which really shouldn't be administered without good reason.
It is unusual to have secondary births delayed by such a long time but it happens.
Is it possible that the first lamb was incorrectly attributed to the ewe?
I've had a ewe, lamb a week after going out to the field with 'its' lambs.

I didn't used to scan my own, but I only had 20 and they had to be kept inside at night to keep them safe from the locals, so they were fed a tiny ration (to get them in) every night and ad-lib hay. During pregnancy I slowly upped their feed and had a very short lambing period. For a couple of years I did synchronised oestrus too, which was good but costly with so few. I then went into Hampshire Downs, who are really responsive to putting the ram in and I lambed at the beginning of Dec to get big lambs for the show ring.
Then children came along and it all came to an end. The sad thing is you can eat your sheep when they are a pain in the backside, but kids are forever. I wouldn't be without them though.

 

[Man_in_black]

I'm in Wales

they had to be kept inside at night to keep them safe from the locals,

I'm going to bed....

 

[Grem]

I'm going to bed....

Good night, sleep tight.

 

[Agrivator]

I once had two ewes that were turned out with a total of one lamb between them.

Yes, I know ........................

 

[primmiemoo]

Good Morning. As the title says, what is wrong with this lamb? The lamb was 24hrs old when I took the video last night. The ewe had had a slight sticky, clear discharge for the 12 hrs prior to lambing. The first lamb was breach and dead, this was the second lamb. It was covered in meconium when born but was 'bright eyed and bushy tailed', although didn't attempt to stand for half an hour. As you can see in the video, it can't stand. It feels like it has rigour - real case of the living dead!
I have only lived and worked on the farm for a couple of years, but there has been several similar cases over the years. Some make it, some don't.
We have also had 2 ewes ( 1 last and 1 this year, so far) who have given birth naturally in the morning and then produced more lambs in the afternoon/evening. This year - a single in the morning (naturally), 12 hours later a dead one (naturally) followed by an assisted live one.
Last year 2 (naturally) 8 hours apart. Can ewes hold onto the lambs until they feel safe?


Tried to upload a video but can't make it work? Can anyone help please? The video is in IMG format.

Can see why you're worried. OK ...

If unsure of number of lambs carried by the ewe, and under instruction not to check for another lamb by inserting a clean hand after the first is born, then check for the external bump made by the second or third lamb.

As already Cheviot53 said upthread, feel externally in front of the udder. Lift the area slightly, and if there's a solid feeling bump, 99 times out of 100 there's another lamb.

You then have a choice to watch for the ewe to give birth to the lamb (it's a lovely process when everything is right), or to gently assist her to have the next one.

I can't be sure about the rigor you described, sorry, there are too many variables. A Vet's advice, and going on a lambing course will help your confidence immensely

 

[Grem]

Can see why you're worried. OK ...

If unsure of number of lambs carried by the ewe, and under instruction not to check for another lamb by inserting a clean hand after the first is born, then check for the external bump made by the second or third lamb.

As already Cheviot53 said upthread, feel externally in front of the udder. Lift the area slightly, and if there's a solid feeling bump, 99 times out of 100 there's another lamb.

You then have a choice to watch for the ewe to give birth to the lamb (it's a lovely process when everything is right), or to gently assist her to have the next one.

I can't be sure about the rigor you described, sorry, there are too many variables. A Vet's advice, and going on a lambing course will help your confidence immensely

Thank you. I hadn't heard of feeling in front of the udder for further lambs - I'll try that, even if just out of interest, with the next one. As for external bumps - I still looked very pregnant several months after giving birth to my son! I've lambed probably 30-40 ewes over the years - I was lucky with my Hampshires as they seem to do everything right with very little intervention. Other breeds are a lot more work, from my experience, esp continentals.

I once had two ewes that were turned out with a total of one lamb between them.

Yes, I know ........................

I once had two ewes that were turned out with a total of one lamb between them.

Yes, I know ........................