What Will Be The Turning Point?

[Derrick Hughes]

Why the constant dig at farmers markets , 2cd only to Cyclists and seed salesmen
The one at Aberyswyth is always well suported , well done to them i say for doing somthing diferent

 

[sheepwise]

Farm stock sale yesterday north of Dumfries and west of Lochmaben,locals said it had been sold and going to be all planted.It will ruin the landscape eventually.

Just heard this afternoon of a 200 acre dairy farm about 15 miles from here been bought for trees. Sad times indeed. Folk might go hungry in the future but at least they’ll have plenty wood to keep themselves warm!!

 

[Cowcorn]

They can do what they like but when 43 million people in the U.K. are earning around £400/week after tax they want and need cheap food.

The nearest local farmers market around here isn’t accessible to the vast majority of people which is why it isn’t well supported.

True but peoples incomes are nothing to do with farmers
Its not up to farmers to fill anyones belly on the cheap
As the powers that be are hell bent on removing subs that were supposed to even out the market Farmers need to realise that this " cheap food policy " was never going to be their friend
People need a good kick up the arse especially politicans when the spout this cheap food bullshite
Why not cheap booze and fags when youre at it ?

 

[Al R]

Uncle rented these fields for spuds in the 80’s and bought the fields outright in the June off the profit alone off those acres, it was bought in the year 2000 by Greenpeace group who let it go to ruin over 16 years, actually dumping those rocks there They then sold it on and the WG actually want it farmed and not brambles to be able to claim subsidy on them. After 4 years with horses and 12 months now with sheep we are managing to get 18 acres of what was good ground back to 6 acres of grass. 5 acres will never be recovered without agent Orange.
Both pictures are taken looking into the middle of what was a lovely 10 acre field.

 

[warksfarmer]

Folk might go hungry in the future but at least they’ll have plenty wood to keep themselves warm!!

I keep seeing statements like this and it’s just not going to happen. It’s the year 2021 and we’ve companies like Amazon and Microsoft amongst hundreds of others. Food will always be cheap and will always be available because companies like the above exist and are getting into food production and distribution.

This idea that people in this country will starve and U.K. farmers will once again become the saviour like during WW1 and WW2 just is not going to happen.

This country is insignificant as we are just to small. U.K. agriculture is even more insignificant compared to other countries agricultural systems.

This is why agriculture is being phased out by removal of bps, more stringent regulation and a general anti farming train of thought.

 

[Sharpy]

Uncle rented these fields for spuds in the 80’s and bought the fields outright in the June off the profit alone off those acres, it was bought in the year 2000 by Greenpeace group who let it go to ruin over 16 years, actually dumping those rocks there They then sold it on and the WG actually want it farmed and not brambles to be able to claim subsidy on them. After 4 years with horses and 12 months now with sheep we are managing to get 18 acres of what was good ground back to 6 acres of grass. 5 acres will never be recovered without agent Orange.
Both pictures are taken looking into the middle of what was a lovely 10 acre field.
View attachment 987951View attachment 987952

Electric fence half an acre at a time and graze with goats and a chainsaw if you want the scrub cleared, assuming that there are too many rocks for a jungle buster type machine.

 

[Dave645]

I keep seeing statements like this and it’s just not going to happen. It’s the year 2021 and we’ve companies like Amazon and Microsoft amongst hundreds of others. Food will always be cheap and will always be available because companies like the above exist and are getting into food production and distribution.

This idea that people in this country will starve and U.K. farmers will once again become the saviour like during WW1 and WW2 just is not going to happen.

This country is insignificant as we are just to small. U.K. agriculture is even more insignificant compared to other countries agricultural systems.

This is why agriculture is being phased out by removal of bps, more stringent regulation and a general anti farming train of thought.

This is actually not true they get into land ownership not food production, also by 2050 it’s expected we need a 50% increase in food production due to world population growth, while some of that can be clawed back from waste food ie not wasting it in the first place, that’s not going to cover rising demand.

the rich see the one truth, land area for food production is getting smaller every year, due to its being used for building homes etc. Which is natural with a growing population, they also know water is becoming an issue all over the world, as is more extreme weather, so land is likley to continue to be the most stable investment out there, food production is not there goal, investment is. And hiding money from the tax man.
I am happy to be wrong but I have never seen an article about Amazon farming food, or Bill Gates becoming a farmer, so not just investors.
I personally think that farming will go on, farming is a diminishing resource, especially if you hold up carbon neutral as a target, on that point, the planet doesn’t need to be carbon neutral, the planet can deal with billions of tonnes of C02 we just need to produce less than it can naturally absorb.

 

[toquark]

You had better tell this lot then, they are clearly wasting their time.

https://farmretail.co.uk/2021/08/24/world-coalition-of-farmers-markets/

edit: Our neighbours have a waiting list as long as your arm for their veg box scheme. Everything on our farm is sold before it is born, at a price of our setting. I really, really can't get my head round the fact that so many within agriculture can be so insulting towards their fellow producers and their customers, whilst at the same time moaning about how the world is against them. What do you feckin expect ? Any member of the public stumbling in here would think farmers a bunch of spoilt children.

Nothing wrong with farmers markets, the ones local to here are well supported and well stocked. However they only really cater to the affluent middle classes who have the disposable income to make the choice about their food comes from. Without the buy in from major supermarkets, we won't see any great change in people's shopping habits. You can't expect the market to drive demand.

As producers however, we do have a choice about which market we supply. If you choose to supply the commodity market, then don't complain when you get commodity prices. Likewise, if you choose to supply directly, then you can expect a better margin. A good number round here are choosing this route and the best of luck to them.

My efforts are so far limited to an egg honesty box at the bottom of the road, but to be honest, I suspect that in terms of margins, this may be one of the most profitable aspects of the business...

 

[delilah]

Nothing wrong with farmers markets, the ones local to here are well supported and well stocked. However they only really cater to the affluent middle classes who have the disposable income to make the choice about their food comes from. Without the buy in from major supermarkets, we won't see any great change in people's shopping habits. You can't expect the market to drive demand.

As producers however, we do have a choice about which market we supply. If you choose to supply the commodity market, then don't complain when you get commodity prices. Likewise, if you choose to supply directly, then you can expect a better margin. A good number round here are choosing this route and the best of luck to them.

My efforts are so far limited to an egg honesty box at the bottom of the road, but to be honest, I suspect that in terms of margins, this may be one of the most profitable aspects of the business...

For sure, I absolutely recognize that farmers markets are just Middle England pleasuring itself. Which is no reason for farmers to take the p1ss. Does the airline industry ridicule folks who fly first class ?

Direct sales will only ever account for 5% max of food sales. The question for the industry is does it let the other 95% continue to be controlled by the cartel, or does it work with the environmental and social justice movement to bring about structural change in the marketplace ?

 

[toquark]

For sure, I absolutely recognize that farmers markets are just Middle England pleasuring itself. Which is no reason for farmers to take the p1ss. Does the airline industry ridicule folks who fly first class ?

Direct sales will only ever account for 5% max of food sales. The question for the industry is does it let the other 95% continue to be controlled by the cartel, or does it work with the environmental and social justice movement to bring about structural change in the marketplace ?

How would you suggest we engage then and please don't say join the Green party.

And how does that engagement actually effect change? From what I see, the bulk of the environmental movement and particularly the social justice element, they are complete fruitbats. They would be difficult to engage with, they see agriculture, particularly animal agriculture as evil.

A more effective tactic may be to simply supply more directly en masse (farmer owned coops anyone?) and compete with the supermarkets. This would either force the cartel into supplying customers with imports (fine because those that choose to are getting a better margin any via the coop), or offer a better price.

 

[delilah]

How would you suggest we engage then and please don't say join the Green party.

And how does that engagement actually effect change? From what I see, the bulk of the environmental movement and particularly the social justice element, they are complete fruitbats. They would be difficult to engage with, they see agriculture, particularly animal agriculture as evil.

A more effective tactic may be to simply supply more directly en masse (farmer owned coops anyone?) and compete with the supermarkets. This would either force the cartel into supplying customers with imports (fine because those that choose to are getting a better margin any via the coop), or offer a better price.

There's some very good people in the eco/social movement who wish to see change, and no the GP wouldn't get a look in lol. They can all be found under the umbrella of Sustain. There was a 'Breaking the Armlock' alliance over 20 years ago of these people, the only farmer I recall being at a meeting was David Handley, it foundered because mainstream ag wasn't (isn't ?) ready to come on board.

The farmer coops thing, maybe 30 years ago, but too late now, the cartel is too powerful. And the issues are more wide ranging; farmer coops may get farmers a stronger position in the marketplace, but would be of little interest to organisations concerned about social/ environmental issues.

 

[warksfarmer]

This is actually not true they get into land ownership not food production, also by 2050 it’s expected we need a 50% increase in food production due to world population growth, while some of that can be clawed back from waste food ie not wasting it in the first place, that’s not going to cover rising demand.

the rich see the one truth, land area for food production is getting smaller every year, due to its being used for building homes etc. Which is natural with a growing population, they also know water is becoming an issue all over the world, as is more extreme weather, so land is likley to continue to be the most stable investment out there, food production is not there goal, investment is. And hiding money from the tax man.
I am happy to be wrong but I have never seen an article about Amazon farming food, or Bill Gates becoming a farmer, so not just investors.
I personally think that farming will go on, farming is a diminishing resource, especially if you hold up carbon neutral as a target, on that point, the planet doesn’t need to be carbon neutral, the planet can deal with billions of tonnes of C02 we just need to produce less than it can naturally absorb.

You’ve taken my point literally where I was just stating that companies like Microsoft and Amazon are getting involved.
Microsoft have developed software and data management for ag and Amazon are in the process of setting up food distribution.

 

[livestock 1]

Getting back to the op I never did quite understand why stewardship was so restrictive in these areas. The goal at the time was to keep small hill farms looking nice for the general public to enjoy. Fair enough the walling grants were a good idea but the rest of it created poorer ground for many. Restrictions on lime fertiliser muck and selective weed killer didn’t do a lot of places any good for either farming or public eye.
Maybe a sustainable payment to continue to farm as many did would have been better

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Getting back to the op I never did quite understand why stewardship was so restrictive in these areas. The goal at the time was to keep small hill farms looking nice for the general public to enjoy. Fair enough the walling grants were a good idea but the rest of it created poorer ground for many. Restrictions on lime fertiliser muck and selective weed killer didn’t do a lot of places any good for either farming or public eye.
Maybe a sustainable payment to continue to farm as many did would have been better

Same problem with Organic farming ,i dont think its that suited to marginal land where rushes can be a msssive problem

 

[livestock 1]

Same problem with Organic farming ,i dont think its that suited to marginal land where rushes can be a msssive problem

It’s a bit like saying this looks nice let’s change everything

 

[Top Tip.]

I see that Brazil are ramping up their beef production, they are quite obviously seeing the direction of travel in places like Europe where the Green brigade have taken over the agenda and are promoting rewilding and organic both of which will decimate our local food production.

 

[SilliamWhale]

If you sold your farm would you sell it to someone like that ,i expect i will have to sell one day , ive already decided whos buying it and told them

Why not sell it to them now and let them build their stake earlier?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Why not sell it to them now and let them build their stake earlier?

I enjoy farming to much to give up now

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

Unsure. I'm not overly happy with the idea of say £3m of asset merely wiping it's face.

But if I'm being honest, I doubt there is more work on a small arable farm than can be done in the 28 days holiday of a *real* job.

But then you’ve got two jobs and no holidays from either!

 

[Muddyroads]

All meaningful change is demand driven. If you all stopped shopping at supermarkets and instead shopped at farmers markets, you would at least be doing your bit to, as the the thread title puts it, stimulate the turning point. Sorry I forgot, you all think that farmers markets are a rip off, to be smirked at, and the folks who are actually trying trying to find the turning point, rather than just talking about it, are interfering lentil knitters who should feck off and leave food production to the experts.
Muppets. Hypocritical muppets the lot of you.

You do like to tar us all with the same brush @delilah.