What's really going on in the machinery business?

[Sussex Martin]

Maybe obvious but why will finance companies be the only benefactor
Jd won't go drop new prices by a chunk because their dealers will never sell all their x hire /stock tractors they have sitting

Who do you think bankrolls all this kit in dealers yards ? A backlane second hand dealer could have close to £1m in stock

 

[jonnieboy]

Talked to someone who had a stand at YAMS yesterday and he was surprised by the enquiry level. A lot higher than he expected , but I guess that's still a long way from a sale .

 

[quattro]

Who do you think bankrolls all this kit in dealers yards ? A backlane second hand dealer could have close to £1m in stock

So if dealer goes bang who benefits auctioneer

 

[Sussex Martin]

So if dealer goes bang who benefits auctioneer

Vultures .

 

[puntabrava]

When mentioned about price cuts to a local rep just turned around and said it does not work like that.

My fendt rep said a 724 is 20k cheaper now than 4 years ago

 

[Clive]

My fendt rep said a 724 is 20k cheaper now than 4 years ago

bit of exchange rates causing that I think not just low farm gate prices - my dealer has told me things are cheaper than they were a couple of year ago

its the used stuff that the problem IMO - just look at combine world right now ! so many machines to choose from, many, many millions tied up in stock

 

[Simon Chiles]

I don't see new prices falling - its the acres of used stuff I reckon has to come down to find homes

Only if it is overpriced. I had someone come to pick some seed up from me lately with his wife. She works for a local finance co and so I said to her that I thought they would be a bit short of work at the moment. She said that they were stacked out with work at the moment but all with people financing old kit. They were struggling to get finance agreements on 15/20 year old tractors. IMO if you need to finance a 20 year old tractor you're on a slippery slope. I've always said that you can afford either finance or repairs but never both.

 

[Goffer]

Heard a rumour yesterday that my local single branch Massey dealer had been bought out.

more than a rumour possibly???? But is said they wanted buying out for some relief!!!!

 

[Clive]

Only if it is overpriced. I had someone come to pick some seed up from me lately with his wife. She works for a local finance co and so I said to her that I thought they would be a bit short of work at the moment. She said that they were stacked out with work at the moment but all with people financing old kit. They were struggling to get finance agreements on 15/20 year old tractors. IMO if you need to finance a 20 year old tractor you're on a slippery slope. I've always said that you can afford either finance or repairs but never both.

if the price of a new fendt or JD is less today than it was 2 years ago (and it is) then the used market has to falll with that

Just look at combine world - there is a ridiculous number of used combines going nowhere, at some point someone is going to need their money out and the only way to sell them is drop prices

Basic supply and demand - there is loads of supply and very little demand right now

It has happened before - the combine market dropped 25% plus in one season I recall (painfully as I was strung tinsel a x68 at the time!)

 

[Drillman]

more than a rumour possibly???? But is said they wanted buying out for some relief!!!!

was talking to a rep there a bit back and I got the feeling that they were a long way adrift of there targets on the sales side.

But if farmers aren't buying they can't sell.

 

[YorkshireAndrew]

It's always been the case in the U.K that anything from cars to combines has been priced as to what folk are willing to pay for it . Chickens home to roost ?

 

[Kevtherev]

i bet i could buy cheap used combine right now, some must be desperate for a bit of cashflow

I doubt new prices will fall but if they want to move the tonnes of used stock thats sitting about then something has to give eventually

price is usually set by supply and demand - right now supply significantly exceeds demand I reckon?

An Mf 525?

 

[spin cycle]

Which dealers will be under the biggest pressure I wonder.........................Our local AGCO dealer literally has no less than 15 Challengers parked in their yard and the majority are trade ins, that's a million pound plus of machines that have no obvious homes to go to!!

Claas must have a huge number of expensive secondhand Lexions sat in their various dealerships....................I just hope they don't bank with Deutche bank as they appear to be sinking fast according to Zero Hedge.

Many Deere dealers are loaded up with huge amounts of ex hire tractors as has been mentioned and lots of secondhand big 7 and 8000 series tractors.
Export markets appear flat for a myriad of reasons that wont be solved anytime soon.

And seeing as the world has just embarked on a huge downturn that thankfully the UK has so far avoided, I don't see machinery sales booming anytime soon..............there will no doubt be more dealership mergers on the way.

these kind of machines can't 'filter down' to us little boys because,even if we could afford them, we don't want them...they're scrap

 

[JP1]

Nearly all new machines get taken by contractors. And its a finance set up that means the dealers make money.

And they know the contractor will be back in 3-5yrs to chop it in to get more new machines on finance.

And of course the now old machines will be sold off either at price to pay the remaining left on them or just to move them on.

Lets face it a price machine drops quickly once it leaves the dealers forecourt.

So although there may be a large number of used machines for sale at what seems a reasonable price, there are contractors, both agri and building such as highways getting the new shiny stuff.

As big an issue in all of this is that surely the traditional route was big combines and tractors for the East new and then head West secondhand can no longer work, no export market for complex electronic / eco versions

 

[puntabrava]

[nQUOTE="quattro, post: 2103742, member: 1438"]So if dealer goes bang who benefits auctioneer[/QUOTE]

None of us benefit, we will all pay in the long run, personally i hope it all sorts itself out soon and no dealers are lost.

 

[Banana Bar]

Went to a sale at thetford today and things were making silly prices,
You wouldn't think wheat was £100/ton that's all I will say.

Agree, prices were ridiculous, think some buyers should of done some research on new prices before heading to the sale

 

[john432]

The internet is going to hit the dealers margins ever more as our profits decline, We now have the tool to compare prices in different countries and get an idea on the value of a similar machine. We have been ripped off in this country for too long! I was looking at a forestry winch for instance, £6000 in this country, £4500 in Germany ! I know of 3-4 dealers locally that have accuired vast fortunes in the past 30 years , who cares if their good times are over!

 

[Robt]

All this Eastern European countries can't maintain modern kit is rubbish! Some of the dealers put uk to shame. Some had lots of eu money to equip. Certainly no skill shortage. That polish chap driving a taxi is possibly a fully qualified mechanic. As demand increases. They will head home again

 

[Robt]

Where does all the money go when farming has a good year?
Is land really falling in price? How are input costs compared to three or even five years ago.
I'd be interested to know real world uk cost to grow a ha of wheat five years ago compared to now. Very easy to be doom and gloom but farmers are still buying

 

[Drillman]

Basically the whole job is well and truly fecked and unfortunately needs a disaster or war of epic proportions to get prices up again.