When a sale isn’t a sale

[ColinV6]

How can people be so brazen!

 

[Farmer_Joe]

thats a disgrace i would have filled my low loader in their yard for my 'hassel'


really poor if you dont now you should definitely name and shame when the time is right, its just shite

 

[Dry Rot]

Name and shame is fine if you are sure you can produce law court proof that what you are saying is true. If not, you could end up paying out for damaging a reputation. He said, you said, who's to know where the truth lies?

Edited to add, always get it in writing!

 

[mo!]

You should sue for diminution of value I.e. it's now a second hand bit of kit, so you are due the difference from new. Lodge the claim with moneyclaimsonline as it's cheaper and you will get your costs paid. You should not tolerate this kind of behaviour and as a previous customer of yours, it's people like us that have to pay for it.

 

[powerfarmer]

Don't name and shame, get advice from a solicitor with experience in such cases.
There are solicitors who specialise in motor trade/ machinery issues. It would be a small price to get the right answers.

 

[Tarw Coch]

You should sue for diminution of value I.e. it's now a second hand bit of kit, so you are due the difference from new. Lodge the claim with moneyclaimsonline as it's cheaper and you will get your costs paid. You should not tolerate this kind of behaviour and as a previous customer of yours, it's people like us that have to pay for it.

Yes, that’s what our late dairy engineer who allways called a spade a spade said, “it’s the good customers who end up paying for the bad ones”

 

[Guy]

If they’d washed them off and delivered them back at least with a few beers and an apology I’d be more understanding as our industry is under a lot of pressure and things happen but the utter lack of respect or giving a sh!t is very upsetting.

 

[Grassman]

They betrayed your trust.
Something the majority of us would never do.
Get them through the small claims court first.

 

[lloyd]

Look on the bright side the list
price has probably gone up 20% in
the time

 

[Dave W]

Work out the price you need to get out of trouble including haulage and the machines depreciation. Send them a bill with an accompanying solicitors letter. No need to go straight to small claims but strongly suggest that it's likely if they don't pay within 7 days.

 

[e3120]

Yes, need to send a bill, with a letter before action (LBA) before small claims/MCOL. Otherwise it will, quite rightly, get chucked out. Needs to clearly state timeline for payment. Can't use the original invoice as the grounds as you now have possession.

 

[D14]

so ... weird one this ...

A few months ago I supplied a new 3m set of discs to a contactor “doon sooth”

I agreed to deliver FOC so dropped them off at their premises, new sheds going up, new machinery everywhere . I was told payment would be made later that day and I’d obtained a few references so was “reasonably” satisfied. A week later, no payment. I called the owner of the company’s debt politely reminded him, he then told me “we pay our invoices at the end of the month”
So 6 weeks later, still no payment. I made another polite call only to be told they don’t have any money, they are terribly sorry and I can collect the discs at my leisure (180 miles away) of course sh!t happens so I go and collect the discs. I arrive there and they have been used, they are covered in soil and mud and here is plastic wrapped around 60% of the bearings ..... obviously I’m livid but what is the forums opinion ? I’m going to charge for collecting and cleaning but what about a nominal hire charge ??

Doubt you will get anywhere with this but you must put a bill in so your on the list if the business is in trouble? Of course if its LTD then no assets will be in the company so you won't get anywhere but being on the list is better than not as you never know.
You need to add up delivery and collection charges and then add on depreciation of the discs due to them being used as they were not the demo set and this was not an agreed demonstration. 50% off the list price. This is not a hire because if you invoice for hire then it'll be much less than the depreciation because if it comes to it you will have to justify your costs in the magistrates court.

 

[Cowcorn]

I’m very torn to be honest, on one hand I think the machinery industry needs turning upside down but I also love the tradition of our agriculture industry and wanting to be as flexible as possible... it works most of the time but sadly not always.

Youre a proper gentleman, a rare thing these days its a really shitty stunt that fellow pulled turning a new disc into a demo machine . If he has any moral fibre he will make sure you are not out of pocket but i wouldnt hold my breath . Court is it worth the hassle ? Personally i wouldnt bother getting paid as icanshootaswell has pointed out is not gauranteed. Might be a queue in front of you from those that supplied the new sheds and other machinery . Hope this bad experience does not cause you any more grief .

 

[76masseyman]

Definitely charge for cleaning them as it’s a bio security issue.
You wouldn’t want to be accused of spreading black grass !!

 

[fiat 9090]

I’m very torn to be honest, on one hand I think the machinery industry needs turning upside down but I also love the tradition of our agriculture industry and wanting to be as flexible as possible... it works most of the time but sadly not always.

You are very like me in that regard and I have got caught before for the simple reason we think everyone else is honest and trustworthy but sadly they are not ,take back your machine and be thankful it's not broke up ,I just got sorted with a mower I sold in good faith and it has left a sour taste in my mouth but I learnt my lesson

 

[RCW Farm Services]

So you do actually sell discs then??

 

[Norm]

Are you sure about that, i took someone to small claims court 20 years ago, and i am still waiting for payment. Luckily it was for £600 and just wrote it off and learnt from it. As for @Guy, he got the disks back, it will cost him 250 approx to take it to small claims and he won,t be guaranteed he gets paid after that. Draw a line under it and move on.

£30 cost when I did it online three years ago

 

[RushesToo]

@Guy It isn't clear from your post - is there a "contract" in place? A purchase order and invoice for the equipment?
If there is get your hands on the equipment before anything else.
When you pick it up I think that you need to close down the invoice with a credit note restoring the goods to you - or he is the legal owner [even though a debtor]
Then consider your options. My worry is there is no contract in place for hire - so them failing to pay for it is hard to prove. I think you need to claim on a subtlety of lost value.
The paper trail might look like this:
You would need to issue an invoice for lost value / hire
Issue a credit note for the purchase invoice.
Then sue on the failure to pay that - there is some sort of trail of there being a contract in place.

NOTE: I am not a lawyer but this seems a possible way of going to court. Whatever happens get the equipment first. @Danllan ?

 

[Danllan]

@Guy It isn't clear from your post - is there a "contract" in place? A purchase order and invoice for the equipment?
If there is get your hands on the equipment before anything else.
When you pick it up I think that you need to close down the invoice with a credit note restoring the goods to you - or he is the legal owner [even though a debtor]
Then consider your options. My worry is there is no contract in place for hire - so them failing to pay for it is hard to prove. I think you need to claim on a subtlety of lost value.
The paper trail might look like this:
You would need to issue an invoice for lost value / hire
Issue a credit note for the purchase invoice.
Then sue on the failure to pay that - there is some sort of trail of there being a contract in place.

NOTE: I am not a lawyer but this seems a possible way of going to court. Whatever happens get the equipment first. @Danllan ?

Well, there is a contract in place, but from the info' supplied we can't tell whether it is a written one with explicit terms or an implied one. The fact they acknowledge having requested, received and used the kit is greatly in the OP's favour too, this is all implicit in the facts that they have kit, recognise that it was supplied by the OP and that they are happy for him to retrieve it.

As for a remedy... it's probably going to be a case of 'join the queue'... and, anyway, depends upon how pleasant the @Guy wishes to be. There is a clear case to be compensated for the collection and cleaning / repair of the kit, that is definite. I think it's near-certain that delivery costs can be claimed for too - despite delivery being FOC, it is obvious that it was made on condition and in anticipation of purchase and payment, neither of which happened. Charging for use of the kit at standard hiring rates seems reasonable too.

The OP is obliged to try and seek a remedy before going to the Courts, not that there seems much hope with the other side's attitude and probable lack of resources; nonetheless, 'we're broke' might be a bluff, so it should be done. Not much else to write really, other than follow the proper course of request, request again, request with mild demand, demand with threat of legal action, then take legal action.

Wish there was some good news to impart, but can't think of any...

 

[d williams]

Well, there is a contract in place, but from the info' supplied we can't tell whether it is a written one with explicit terms or an implied one. The fact they acknowledge having requested, received and used the kit is greatly in the OP's favour too, this is all implicit in the facts that they have kit, recognise that it was supplied by the OP and that they are happy for him to retrieve it.

As for a remedy... it's probably going to be a case of 'join the queue'... and, anyway, depends upon how pleasant the @Guy wishes to be. There is a clear case to be compensated for the collection and cleaning / repair of the kit, that is definite. I think it's near-certain that delivery costs can be claimed for too - despite delivery being FOC, it is obvious that it was made on condition and in anticipation of purchase and payment, neither of which happened. Charging for use of the kit at standard hiring rates seems reasonable too.

The OP is obliged to try and seek a remedy before going to the Courts, not that there seems much hope with the other side's attitude and probable lack of resources; nonetheless, 'we're broke' might be a bluff, so it should be done. Not much else to write really, other than follow the proper course of request, request again, request with mild demand, demand with threat of legal action, then take legal action.

Wish there was some good news to impart, but can't think of any...

So where do people who state goods remain ours until paid in full stand ?
Are there some standard terms of compensation if not paid in full?