Which breed as terminal sire for Easy Cares ??

[Hartwig]

We have EasyCare-Sheep originally from Iolo Owens Flock and keep them on our arable farm on very good fodder, basically it`s either pure italian ryegrass which we grow for grasseed production or it`s any kind of covercrop over winter, so all highly palatable and energy-rich. Problem is, not only the ewes become fat but also the lambs which we slaughter for direct marketing, so a good carcass quality is essential for us !!
Now we think about crossing the EasyCare-ewes with a terminal sire ram for getting leaner lamb carcasses without compromising weight gain or meat quality and keep the other part of the flock purebred ECs for replacements.
Our idea was either a Lleyn ram or a Zwarbles one as terminal sire.
Any experiences with that crossing or better ideas around ??
Thx.

 

[Agrivator]

The safest bet would be a good Texel of whatever type you can obtain. But ensure that it from a flock which is MV accredited.

Lleyns or Zwartbles would be a last resort.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Imported from UK Charollais would be the go

Lleyn arent a terminal sire, ime anyway.

 

[sticky]

Charolais.

 

[DanM]

We have EasyCare-Sheep originally from Iolo Owens Flock and keep them on our arable farm on very good fodder, basically it`s either pure italian ryegrass which we grow for grasseed production or it`s any kind of covercrop over winter, so all highly palatable and energy-rich. Problem is, not only the ewes become fat but also the lambs which we slaughter for direct marketing, so a good carcass quality is essential for us !!
Now we think about crossing the EasyCare-ewes with a terminal sire ram for getting leaner lamb carcasses without compromising weight gain or meat quality and keep the other part of the flock purebred ECs for replacements.
Our idea was either a Lleyn ram or a Zwarbles one as terminal sire.
Any experiences with that crossing or better ideas around ??
Thx.

How many ewes are you tupping? If you are marketing your own lamb then having lambs finishing at different stages is advantageous. So using different types of terminal may be helpful; Charolais, texel, beltex would give you a spread of finishing dates.

 

[pgk]

We have used texel to good effect in last four years, this year we are putting some to charollais and chartex as well. A friend puts half his easycare flock to charollais and results are impressive with no deduction for live selling.

 

[Hartwig]

Flock size is not that big to justify different terminal breeds ......
We have outruled Texel, Charolais, Suffolk, etc. to ensure easy lambing as we use to let the ewes lamb unattended outdoors on grass and don`t want to have more trouble with lambing than unavoidable - huge lambs from these breeds could end desastrous for our aim and practice, or am I wrong ??

 

[neilo]

Flock size is not that big to justify different terminal breeds ......
We have outruled Texel, Charolais, Suffolk, etc. to ensure easy lambing as we use to let the ewes lamb unattended outdoors on grass and don`t want to have more trouble with lambing than unavoidable - huge lambs from these breeds could end desastrous for our aim and practice, or am I wrong ??

I lamb my Highlander ewes outdoors to a Charollais, and I certainly don’t expect to assist many (I wouldn’t be using them if I did). However, some Charollais are big, framey things now, likely with high birth weights, and several of your countryman have imported those types from the UK. As far as terminal sires go, a carefully selected Charollais would be ideal for your situation, a big, framey one would be a disaster. PM me if you want the contact details of a German breeder that has the former.

However, if you want a simple system, could you not just select an Easycare that had been bred for more growth and muscle, possibly with MyoMAX for improved hindquarter muscling? That way you could improve the carcass qualities of your ewes & lambs slightly, whilst still retaining the ‘easycare’ traits that you clearly value. @Woolless might be worth having a chat with on that score?

 

[TexelBen]

I'd go for a decent texel with a more feminine head and streamline shoulders, not a cabbage fed monster with hulk shoulders and no arse

The white faces will gel well and should lamb easy enough.
Choose your breeder with the same goals


Tidy easyram NZ Tex would do well, BUT other breeders with similar goals are out there

 

[neilo]

I'd go for a decent texel with a more feminine head and streamline shoulders, not a cabbage fed monster with hulk shoulders and no arse

The white faces will gel well and should lamb easy enough.
Choose your breeder with the same goals


Tidy easyram NZ Tex would do well, BUT other breeders with similar goals are out there

I remember a thread on here a couple of years ago, where @willy posted up his grading sheets after his convertion to Easycares. IIRC the pure Easycare lambs both weighed and graded better, than those by the NZ bred terminals, although I suspect/hope they might have been improved since.
I made the same point then too, might as well stick with a simple system of breeding them all ‘pure’ (if a Welsh Mountain x Wiltshire Horn x whateveryoulike can be described as pure ). If a terminal sire doesn’t bring improvements in terminal traits to the party, then what’s the point of complicating things?

 

[pgk]

Flock size is not that big to justify different terminal breeds ......
We have outruled Texel, Charolais, Suffolk, etc. to ensure easy lambing as we use to let the ewes lamb unattended outdoors on grass and don`t want to have more trouble with lambing than unavoidable - huge lambs from these breeds could end desastrous for our aim and practice, or am I wrong ??

Choose the right strain of terminal sires, we lamb all ours outside including pure texels. We select for smaller heads and shoulders and a bit more length. Will tell you how charollais go as we are using one from neilo! We also have a double myomax shedder from woolless so will have some interesting times comparing the kill out sheets.

 

[steveR]

However, if you want a simple system, could you not just select an Easycare that had been bred for more growth and muscle, possibly with MyoMAX for improved hindquarter muscling? That way you could improve the carcass qualities of your ewes & lambs slightly, whilst still retaining the ‘easycare’ traits that you clearly value. @Woolless might be worth having a chat with on that score?

"My" Welshman who has been keeping EC here for a couple of years has invested in a new Myomax tup this time, not seen him in the flesh, but seen the pics, and boy is he nice VERY different from the earlier tup we used here on Herself's small flock, he was just plain ugly!

Talk was that the single may be brough tback here to lamb in the solar farm, which displays complete confidence that the EC attributes for easy lambing will still be there. We have always felt it would be abrilliant place for lambing, other than crap for a lot of involvement with the actual lambing process..

It will be fascinating to see the female progeny in 18 months time...

 

[neilo]

"My" Welshman who has been keeping EC here for a couple of years has invested in a new Myomax tup this time, not seen him in the flesh, but seen the pics, and boy is he nice VERY different from the earlier tup we used here on Herself's small flock, he was just plain ugly!

Talk was that the single may be brough tback here to lamb in the solar farm, which displays complete confidence that the EC attributes for easy lambing will still be there. We have always felt it would be abrilliant place for lambing, other than crap for a lot of involvement with the actual lambing process..

It will be fascinating to see the female progeny in 18 months time...

I’ve always wondered how much fun it would be chasing the odd errant sheep round rows of solar panels in the rain....

 

[steveR]

I’ve always wondered how much fun it would be chasing the odd errant sheep round rows of solar panels in the rain....

Unless you are 2ft tall, it's a PITA... and Back... and knees! A good dog and splitting up into paddocks is the trick. Happily, when it comes to gathering the EC flock, Mr Welshman has access to a man with 2 good dogs

For our few (and the visitors if necessary), I have a smaller field that we can push the sheep into with a familar exit point for the sheep, where I just happen to have a large corral and race, so we push them in and as the last sheep crosses the threshold, of teh pen my better half shoots out from behind the hedge and shuts the gate.

But catching a ewe having a difficult time lambing...... But of course the whole point about teh EC, is you let them get on with it...

 

[yellowbelly]

We have outruled Texel, Charolais, Suffolk, etc. to ensure easy lambing as we use to let the ewes lamb unattended outdoors on grass and don`t want to have more trouble with lambing than unavoidable - huge lambs from these breeds could end desastrous for our aim and practice, or am I wrong ??

We've only a few EasyCares but we put them to a good Charolais (sourced from @neilo - other breeders are available )
Lamb easy enough, not a great picture, but the only one I can find........

Wedge shaped lambs (that's why they lamb easy) but very good back ends......

 

[TexelBen]

I remember a thread on here a couple of years ago, where @willy posted up his grading sheets after his convertion to Easycares. IIRC the pure Easycare lambs both weighed and graded better, than those by the NZ bred terminals, although I suspect/hope they might have been improved since.
I made the same point then too, might as well stick with a simple system of breeding them all ‘pure’ (if a Welsh Mountain x Wiltshire Horn x whateveryoulike can be described as pure ). If a terminal sire doesn’t bring improvements in terminal traits to the party, then what’s the point of complicating things?

Very true, keeping them pure and using a tup with ebvs that will get what you want is a great idea, I'd hope the NZ sired lambs are better now!

I know ours were neck and neck with some Neilo sired lambs on dlwg

 

[Green farmer]

Ran a ordinary charolais and a easycare ram last year on crossbred lleyn ewes. All ran on old permanent paddock and rough grazing. Sending lambs to factory now. Not much difference between the two. Both k.o the same.

 

[britt]

I use texel and Charolais on easycare ewes lambing outside and assist perhaps 2 a year and then think they didn't need it.
If you are not feeding cake before lambing lamb size shouldn't be an issue.
Llyns were the easycare of 20 years ago.

 

[Woolless]

I lamb my Highlander ewes outdoors to a Charollais, and I certainly don’t expect to assist many (I wouldn’t be using them if I did). However, some Charollais are big, framey things now, likely with high birth weights, and several of your countryman have imported those types from the UK. As far as terminal sires go, a carefully selected Charollais would be ideal for your situation, a big, framey one would be a disaster. PM me if you want the contact details of a German breeder that has the former.

However, if you want a simple system, could you not just select an Easycare that had been bred for more growth and muscle, possibly with MyoMAX for improved hindquarter muscling? That way you could improve the carcass qualities of your ewes & lambs slightly, whilst still retaining the ‘easycare’ traits that you clearly value. @Woolless might be worth having a chat with on that score?

I've noted one or two enquiries via the Easycare society from the continent regarding Myomax tups for export. I'd sold all mine by then .

 

[SteveHants]

SufTex or another cross terminal to maximise your heterosis