Have a field and on the opposite site of the road is a house which flooded last year (as did many in this particular extreme event). It sits a good 30 cm lower than the road already and the ditch/pipe which deals with their excess water goes under the road and into a ditch which goes away from the road alongside our field. The homeowner seems to think I should be cutting out the hedge growth and cleaning the ditch out annually. Do we have any responsibility for this water or any obligation to clean the ditch out other than our normal routine maintenance (which isn't annual)?
Who is responsible for homeowners rain water?
- Thread starter AlfM
- Start date
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
This is very tricky and you might need to go back to your deeds as to actually owns the watercourse that the water is draining into.
Looking at this and the limited info available I would guess that the watercourse is your boundary with the road so ownership is yours up to the centre.
www.gov.uk
Depending on your agreement with the road owner on routine maintenance this webpage is pretty informative under the heading "Let water flow naturally".
Looking at this and the limited info available I would guess that the watercourse is your boundary with the road so ownership is yours up to the centre.
Owning a watercourse
Your responsibilities and rules to follow for watercourses on or near your property, and permissions you need to do work around them.
The watercourse in question flows away from the road at right angles between 2 fields we have (rented).This is very tricky and you might need to go back to your deeds as to actually owns the watercourse that the water is draining into.
Looking at this and the limited info available I would guess that the watercourse is your boundary with the road so ownership is yours up to the centre.
Depending on your agreement with the road owner on routine maintenance this webpage is pretty informative under the heading "Let water flow naturally".Owning a watercourse
Your responsibilities and rules to follow for watercourses on or near your property, and permissions you need to do work around them.
Whilst strictly true ...........
The obvious answer is to come to an arrangement with the home owner who, in the interests of protecting his property & flood insurance, may perhaps be happy to pay the cost of ditching. Done properly, should only need it every other year in any case
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Is the pipe under the road blocked? Good luck deciding who cleans that out.
- Location
- South Wales UK
Tell him the great crested newts are in charge these days sorry !
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
So you might fall foul of the guidance from the environment agency.
Specifically the reduce the flow or cause flooding to other landowners' property. But as you are renting this might be up to your landlord. As I mentioned before its a tricky situation and for the sake of cleaning it out once a year do you really want to find out? As @Bald Rick mentions, maybe the homeowner is happy to work with you to get to a reasonable resolution, ie pay for it either partly or fully.
- Location
- East yorks
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
A landowner is surely bound to accept water from an owner at a higher level (i.e. up stream). And the landowner below him is bound to accept that water and not cause it to back up in the ditches by allowing an obstruction. In the absence of anything to the contrary, I'd say the landowner is responsible for maintaining ditches rather than the tenant as he (landlord) has (presumably) let the land for the specific purpose of farming. Not cleaning ditches and allowing land to flood could be considered "derogation from grant" as neglected ditches may prevent the tenant from having the benefit of the use of the land for farming. Except, of course, in exceptional circumstances. But the subject is a lawyer's paradise and, as they say, "it all depends". Drainage disputes are notoriously expensive.
Derogation from grant is commonly referred to in the context of landlord and tenant relationships. Where a landlord has taken steps, or granted rights to another party, which render the premises unfit or unsuitable for the purpose for which they were let, the landlord is said to have derogated from its grant (under the lease).
Derogation from grant
The rule that a party should not derogate from its grant embodies a general legal principle that, if A agrees to confer a benefit on B, then A should not do anything that substantially deprives B of the enjoyment of that benefit.Derogation from grant is commonly referred to in the context of landlord and tenant relationships. Where a landlord has taken steps, or granted rights to another party, which render the premises unfit or unsuitable for the purpose for which they were let, the landlord is said to have derogated from its grant (under the lease).
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Good point but there is the technicality that beavers do not own the waterway.I wonder if the beavers will get a copy of those guidelines.....................
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
As you say this is a lawyers paradise as I have seen contracts that included passing the maintenance of the land and ditches from the landlord to the tenant.
Has the ditch been regularly maintained and allows water to flow freely? we have lots locally that were once 3' deep with the bottom slubbed out every few years which are now no more than 1' deep and full of hedge suckers. If the former tell the houseowner to do one. if its the latter feel ashamed and get to work.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
If you rent it, who does the land maintenance, you or the land owner?
Ali_Maxxum
Member
- Location
- Chepstow, Wales
It sounds to me that it can't be an overly huge ditch so no matter how often you clean it out it sounds like if there's that much water at one time it's going to flood regardless of whether it's clear or not.
Is the homeowner suggesting that your ditch is restricting the flow? Sounds more like the pipe before it isn't able to cope.
Is the homeowner suggesting that your ditch is restricting the flow? Sounds more like the pipe before it isn't able to cope.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Which is why I included, "In the absence of anything to the contrary...". Two intelligent adults can agree to anything they choose so long as it's legal! Always wise to read the agreement. The landlord may legally be responsible for any number of things but he can often counter that by pointing out where the tenant has neglected his responsibilities! The tenant may not come out ahead even though the landowner has been negligent. The law cuts both ways and if the parties are wise, they will sit down over a cup of tea and work things out before involving solicitors as advised above.
Exfarmer
Member
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds
I thought in most lettings the responsibility for the ditches goes to the tenant.
Sounds like in this case the ditch probably needs cleaning. But the pipe under the road probably needs cleaning
Sounds like in this case the ditch probably needs cleaning. But the pipe under the road probably needs cleaning
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
sorry didn't mean anything with the remark, was more about how stupid that person had been so sign a lease like that. Combined with other details in it they were signing up to a world of hurt in my view.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
No offencse taken! Just thought my interpretation needed a further explanation which doesn't mean I necessarily think I'm right.