Will human trafficking to UK by E.U. gangs stop after Brexit?

[Old McDonald]

I haven't seen any cricket here. Mainly football, tennis and cycling.

England were here last year for the football, I didn't run them down but they didn't do very well anyway, did they? Wales did very well though; and France and Portugal.


I must admit, it is hard running down England here, if we are amongst English. They are all beating me to it.
For someone who purports to like the uk so much, you have spent a huge chunk of your life living away from it? (Yes, yes, I know, when hell freezes over you intend to move to Scotland, providing it isn't independent by then or...) Also. I am hardly going to take a lecture about how great it is from someone who hasn't hardly been there, on the ground so to speak, for how many years?. I lived my whole life there until 3.5 years ago, I know how crap it is

I made no effort to lecture, I just asked whether you thought it odd for an Englishman to run down England. Obviously it is not. At least I now know that. I still find it strange, but so be it. I am not particularly fond of England myself, nor a lot of English people either.

 

[Old McDonald]

He's right though, isn't he.

Both of you can really be a miserable couple of blighters; and all about what is, to you, a foreign country, the fortunes of which need not bother you. A lot of these posts come across as spiteful and sneering rather than being constructive discussion, unlike, say, posts from the kiwis on here - who really have more reason to gripe, but don't.

edited to say, I don't really understand why you bother. Pickling yourselves in bile can't make you happy, can it?

Oh well, maybe there's a clue in the Trump thread, where we tell the Americans how to run their country, and predict disaster which doesn't seem to happen...eh @Roger Perry?

They both bother because they are only happy when they can post their misery and "spiteful and sneering" remarks. They think I am an easy target because they make assumptions about my travels. They enjoy pickling themselves in bile. I have met a few of their sort before - mainly, as I posted, first generation Aussies from English ex-pats, but the occasional wee nyaff and Irish. Never met a Welsh person with this attitude.

The difference is that it is does not bother me what they post, but I am obviously niggling them when I disagree. I know why I am here. I know it is not permanent. They do not know why I am here. Nor do they know why I lived in Australia for 13 years. Or on the Black Isle for a similar length of time before moving here. They can guess, and I have thrown out the odd red herring if they care to trawl through posts here and on FWi, but they do not know. I wonder if they would take the same attitude towards a diplomat in the foreign service who spent the whole of his working life in foreign parts.

Whilst I have lived in foreign countries I have thoroughly enjoyed being involved in agriculture in those countries and met many really nice people. It has been an enjoyable life and I would do it all over again. We might move somewhere else before returning to Scotland. Of course I have the benefit of several British pensions. I do not have an Australian, nor a Portuguese one. I know how I acquired such pensions, but they do not. They can conjecture as much as they wish about how that came about, but they will not find out.

You and I have had distinct disagreements on this forum, yet we still communicate in agreement on other matters. The same goes for many other posters. I see them disagreeing to a high degree on some threads, yet agreeing on others. Most of the world operates that way, but some people do not. They carry a grudge that eats away at them. Life is too short for such attitudes.

 

[Osca]

You and I have had distinct disagreements on this forum, yet we still communicate in agreement on other matters. The same goes for many other posters. I see them disagreeing to a high degree on some threads, yet agreeing on others. Most of the world operates that way, but some people do not. They carry a grudge that eats away at them. Life is too short for such attitudes.

But just on this topic.? I could understand someone living here and disliking how the politics were going, struggling to accept Brexit etc. - but the complainers are people who aren't going to be affected by it anyway. That's what I can't fathom.

As I say, the only thing which throws any light on it is our rather bizarre British outrage on the "Most Dangerous Man in the World" thread; where an American who dares to comment is put pretty sharply in his place in a way that I find actually quite embarrassing, TBH. But then, how things go for America will affect us more than our leaving the EU will affect the other member states, I think - unless it's true that our financial input will be missed and they feel betrayed. But I don't think they do, or should; so I don't understand it.

edited to say that I'm not enamoured of Trump myself, but if the voters have seen in him something they need, that they aren't getting from the system as it stands, then that is their choice and their right to make that choice - and the same goes for us and Brexit.

 

[manhill]

They both bother because they are only happy when they can post their misery and "spiteful and sneering" remarks. They think I am an easy target because they make assumptions about my travels. They enjoy pickling themselves in bile. I have met a few of their sort before - mainly, as I posted, first generation Aussies from English ex-pats, but the occasional wee nyaff and Irish. Never met a Welsh person with this attitude.

The difference is that it is does not bother me what they post, but I am obviously niggling them when I disagree. I know why I am here. I know it is not permanent. They do not know why I am here. Nor do they know why I lived in Australia for 13 years. Or on the Black Isle for a similar length of time before moving here. They can guess, and I have thrown out the odd red herring if they care to trawl through posts here and on FWi, but they do not know. I wonder if they would take the same attitude towards a diplomat in the foreign service who spent the whole of his working life in foreign parts.

Whilst I have lived in foreign countries I have thoroughly enjoyed being involved in agriculture in those countries and met many really nice people. It has been an enjoyable life and I would do it all over again. We might move somewhere else before returning to Scotland. Of course I have the benefit of several British pensions. I do not have an Australian, nor a Portuguese one. I know how I acquired such pensions, but they do not. They can conjecture as much as they wish about how that came about, but they will not find out.

You and I have had distinct disagreements on this forum, yet we still communicate in agreement on other matters. The same goes for many other posters. I see them disagreeing to a high degree on some threads, yet agreeing on others. Most of the world operates that way, but some people do not. They carry a grudge that eats away at them. Life is too short for such attitudes.

I know who you are! Disappeared in 1974 eh? Aristocrat fell on hard times eh? What did you do with Nanny?

 

[baabaa]

a wee presentation from harvard, which ends on why the euronistas are petrified of " populism"

 

[wanton dwarf]

@baabaa , interesting video.

But would say it's too simplistic. Also taylored to an audience. The forecast for a UKIP vote increasing has proved to be wrong ...

Brexit is a realisation that UK politics needs to be reset, the EU is part of UK politics. The SNP was a similar anti establishment movement, but localised. SNP politics will fail because it is self centred and has the potential to end up like Greece = Germany's poodle covered in the crap of massive debt.

People of the UK need to be focused on what they want for the future and not be bought out by fantasy politics ... first IMHO we should aim for reasonable wage markets and the destruction of high house prices.

 

[baabaa]

@baabaa , interesting video.

But would say it's too simplistic. Also taylored to an audience. The forecast for a UKIP vote increasing has proved to be wrong ...

Brexit is a realisation that UK politics needs to be reset, the EU is part of UK politics. The SNP was a similar anti establishment movement, but localised. SNP politics will fail because it is self centred and has the potential to end up like Greece = Germany's poodle covered in the crap of massive debt.

People of the UK need to be focused on what they want for the future and not be bought out by fantasy politics ... first IMHO we should aim for reasonable wage markets and the destruction of high house prices.

how many with skin in the game want to see lower property prices?

 

[Muck Spreader]

I made no effort to lecture, I just asked whether you thought it odd for an Englishman to run down England. Obviously it is not. At least I now know that. I still find it strange, but so be it. I am not particularly fond of England myself, nor a lot of English people either.

I think you can only understand this as an Englishman looking from the outside in. We often appear aggressive, selfish and somewhat full of our own self importance to foreigners. But it's also like a family augment, it's OK for the family members to be critical, but heaven forbid any outsider who tries it.

 

[Old McDonald]

What did you do with Nanny?

She was bludgeoned to death. Her body was left at the scene.

 

[Old McDonald]

But just on this topic.? I could understand someone living here and disliking how the politics were going, struggling to accept Brexit etc. - but the complainers are people who aren't going to be affected by it anyway. That's what I can't fathom.

It is not just on this topic. Both continually make anti-British and anti-English posts, yet deny it. You will never fathom out such people. They make great assumptions about why other people live in a particular place or have a particular lifestyle.

For your information, and knowing the world can read it, my eldest brother was a very sickly child. At the age of 17 he had parts of his lungs removed and was given a life expectancy of 40. He persevered in the UK and lost literally several months off work each year due to his health. At the age of 36 he reluctantly moved to Australia on the basis that the medics had told him a warmer and drier climate would suit him. He rarely lost a day of work over the next 30 years and is still active today at the age of 81. He did not want to go to Australia, but had he not done so he would have been dead possibly as much as 40 years ago.

I have lived in the UK for 46 years of my life. Their posts at #10 and #13 say I have spent most of my life not in the UK. That makes me at least 93. I am still not going to say why I have spent the non-46 years in sunny and warmer climes. As I said to another similar poster a couple of weeks back, it is no concern of anyone else's where I temporarily live. There is an old saying that home is where the heart is. I agree.

 

[Billhook]

[QUOTE="

People of the UK need to be focused on what they want for the future and not be bought out by fantasy politics ... first IMHO we should aim for reasonable wage markets and the destruction of high house prices.[/QUOTE]

Is it not large numbers of people coming into the UK that have kept wages down and house prices up?
What do you think is the best answer, to keep going with uncontrolled immigration?

 

[turbo]

Most of the problems this country suffers with from nhs,education and housing are all directly from uncontrolled immigration,that's what gets me with people saying without immigration the nhs will fail but it will fail if we don't start talking control of who comes here and what they can have

 

[Muck Spreader]

Most of the problems this country suffers with from nhs,education and housing are all directly from uncontrolled immigration,that's what gets me with people saying without immigration the nhs will fail but it will fail if we don't start talking control of who comes here and what they can have

The country has suffered from a shortage of housing for at least a hundred years. The NHS has suffered from under funding since it's inception and would collapse without migrant labour. Education should be left to teachers and educationists not politicians. What the UK needs is a proper control and assessment on all the "better life" migrants from outside the EU who often have no skills or education to offer the country and whose only aim to bring all their so called extended family in as well.

 

[czechmate]

Most of the problems this country suffers with from nhs,education and housing are all directly from uncontrolled immigration,that's what gets me with people saying without immigration the nhs will fail but it will fail if we don't start talking control of who comes here and what they can have

I am struggling to think of a polite response to this but want to quote it anyway - just in case you realise how bad it sounds and delete it.

 

[turbo]

I am struggling to think of a polite response to this but want to quote it anyway - just in case you realise how bad it sounds and delete it.

I won't be deleting it,managed migration is fine but allowing 100000 people here have put untold pressure on the services we have

 

[Sussex Martin]

I won't be deleting it,managed migration is fine but allowing 100000 people here have put untold pressure on the services we have

I think he was intimating that you may have racist tendencies, you know, the usual response when they know you are right but have the need to disagree .

 

[turbo]

I think he was intimating that you may have racist tendencies, you know, the usual response when they know you are right but have the need to disagree .

That's what I thought he meant,you know you are right when they start chucking the race card about

 

[czechmate]

So there you are @Osca, the posts above are what I detest about the UK. I don't need to live there to know my libtard brain doesn't want to know it.
@Osca, you strike me as a reasonable lady and I wonder for your opinion (unlike some of the above) - do you consider most of the UK problems are caused by immigration ?

 

[turbo]

So there you are @Osca, the posts above are what I detest about the UK. I don't need to live there to know my libtard brain doesn't want to know it.
@Osca, you strike me as a reasonable lady and I wonder for your opinion (unlike some of the above) - do you consider most of the UK problems are caused by immigration ?

I actually said health,education and housing

 

[Osca]

@czechmate, thank you for calling me reasonable; I hope you'll still see me as reasonable when I explain how I feel about this. In fact I hope you will be able to see where I'm coming from and understand that being uneasy about immigration isn't a matter of racism.

For the past 50 years and probably before that, governments of all persuasions have brought in foreign labour en masse to keep our industries and services functioning cheaply, to the short-term benefit of the economy allowing this country to accumulate great wealth - which, however, only goes into the pockets of a few. When I was young the Jamaicans arrived; then the Indians and Pakistanis; now, the Eastern Europeans. (I feel particularly sorry for the Jamaicans, who put a huge value on education and self betterment and ended up in dead end jobs in London slums). Employers benefitted enourmously; you yourself have spoken of the value of Eastern European labour.

However I am in no doubt at all that this harmed the native workforce - and this workforce, remember, would include the children and grandchildren of the last wave of immigrants. There are people whom I know personally to have been good, honest, able workers, who have lost their jobs because cheaper immigrant labour was available. Of course, it isn't easy for an employer to shed long serving staff in this way; so in each case a trumped-up charge of unfitness or gross professional incompetence was used; humiliating and unjust. In one case this had the added benefit to the employer of allowing him to avoid paying monies legally due for redundancy after 20 years of good service. His employee challenged it and won - but she should not have had to endure that. In another case I worked beside the old guy who was sacked and who used to do an excellent job; depite the good reputation of Eastern European workers, his replacements were trying to make as much money as possible from a string of poorly paid jobs and weren't going to waste time doing this one properly.

Of course this isn't the fault of the immigrants themselves - they are trying to better their situation, just as we would in similar circumstances. and when we ourselves buy cheap goods from abroad instead of buying British, we are contributing to the same pattern of loss of employment for those living in Britain. You can't really blame the employer, either, for wanting to reduce costs - it's the cruelty and dishonesty of how this is sometimes done that is inexcusable, IMO.

However, all this is unsustainable. As each wave of migrant labour settles here they become us; they need as much money as we do to survive and along with the rest of us they are displaced from their jobs by the next wave of incoming labour and join the disillusioned and dole-dependent in the cities.

So - no, our present situation isn't due to immigration - but immigration is a part of the pattern and it does need to be controlled; and given a government happy to introduce cheap labour (and they all are - the profits look good on the balance sheet and the costs can be brushed under the carpet with falsified unemployment figures and zero-hours contracts) free movement of people within the EU makes it easy for government to claim they can do nothing about it.

I think you confuse this with racism - but it isn't. Of course where different cultures rub up against one another, especially in conditions of relative poverty, there can be mistrust and resentment on both sides; plus the government doesn't seem to handle the integration of incomers well; nor do all incomers want to integrate. But the real reason for controlling immigration is financial in the LONG term and it is only a small part of the pattern.