With P & K fert prices is it worth baling straw

[Woody j]

Sell straw and buy Fert

 

[Hindsight]

Doesn’t it take more N to break down the straw . I was told recently that carrot growers have to apply N to try and break down all the straw they use to cover the carrots .

Yes, but strawing down carrots uses a fair old bit, someo will know better than me, but looking at 50 tonne hectare, if i recall. is laid 30 cm deep across whole field.

 

[ARW]

Yes, but strawing down carrots uses a fair old bit, someo will know better than me, but looking at 50 tonne hectare, if i recall. is laid 30 cm deep across whole field.

36x 8ft 4x4 bales to the acre

 

[e3120]

That’s the figures for the straw only from an 8t/ha grain yield crop. Grain and straw together would be a lot more.

PDA are Potash Development Association.

Thanks. Just read their website. They have 2 ways of working out the straw nutrient removal - off the back of the grain yield (that makes multiplying by 8 OK); or off the actual straw yield, if known. They talk about 1, 10, 1kg of P, K, Mg per tonne of winter cereal straw, which is roughly in line with your post.

I would say pricing replacing straw with 0.24.24 (the OP's premise) is a bit harsh, as there is always going to be excessive P bought to get the K. Fairer, but messier, to value using straights.

 

[glasshouse]

I’ve chopped most of my acres for the past twenty years. My ground works easier now and the straw breaks down pretty quick if chopped short. Fungicides slow down the breakdown I think. Never seen a slug here. Crusting after planting doesn’t happen either now

Do you cultivate?

 

[Flatlander]

Do you cultivate?

Twice to about 5 inches then heavy harrow. Or disc with a horsch joker if trash load is high To reduce its length. Prefer to cultivate as it’s quicker and can run when wetter. Either way the more mixed it is the better. If worked in early it will decompose before freeze up and the following spring once dry it breaks up easy.

 

[quattro]

Twice to about 5 inches then heavy harrow. Or disc with a horsch joker if trash load is high To reduce its length. Prefer to cultivate as it’s quicker and can run when wetter. Either way the more mixed it is the better. If worked in early it will decompose before freeze up and the following spring once dry it breaks up easy.

Do you grow w wheat?

 

[quattro]

Definitely a no brainer on the muck for straw deal. On the sale stuff I'm thinking if I can buy poultry muck and sell the straw with a decent margin in my favour I would do that.

Potent stuff chicken muck

 

[lloyd]

Depends what the soil indices of a particular field are and also the
weather around harvest time.

 

[bankrupt]

Depends what the soil indices of a particular field are and also the
weather around harvest time.

Also the huge cost embedded in straw of its transport from east to west.

 

[Flatlander]

Do you grow w wheat?

Some years I’ll grow it but the yield advantage isn’t there to risk winter kill. My flat ground is prone to ponding in spring during the thaw and it can leave a patchy crop. It’s not much different in straw load either but it’s a crop that I do like as it’s early to get off the field and if short on storage it can be sold on before spring crops are ready freeing up storage.

 

[Stephensonlouis]

Anyone know where you can get straw tested for P, K & MG?

 

[deleted user 837354]

Anyone know where you can get straw tested for P, K & MG?

No need, use RB 209 book values.

Agronomically speaking, I would be telling a farmer to bale the straw and get rid of it and then replace the offtake with fibrophos or manure or slurry. P and K expensive this year? Fine, put on a reduced dose.

If you sold the straw from every acre for a fixed price and then put on half that same value of fibrophos I would put money on the fact that you would get better crops more often than not.

 

[snarling bee]

I'm not convinced there is the huge gain in muck anymore . I'd now rather chop every year than bale for maybe 4 years before it gets the dung back on that acre .

Not sure I agree with you.

We are only baling 150-180 acres to get 100 acres of FYM back at full rate (150acres at 66% rate).

Field 1 - Chopping almost every year for 40 years - 5% OM
Field 2 - Chop 35 yrs, remove straw for 4 years and add one application each of FYM, Compost and Digested sewage cake - 8% OM.

 

[Barleymow]

Doesn’t it take more N to break down the straw . I was told recently that carrot growers have to apply N to try and break down all the straw they use to cover the carrots .

There's a lot more straw over carrots than you would harvest I would hazard to guess

 

[Steevo]

Depends what price you can sell your straw for, and what price you put on vehicles removing the straw and vehicles applying replacement nutrient.

According to PDA:

A hectare of winter cereal straw from an 8 t/ha wheat crop is estimated to contain:

• 8 (t/ha) x 0.6 = 4.8 kg P2O5/ha
• 8 (t/ha) x 4.8 = 38.4 kg K2O/ha
• 8 (t/ha) x 0.6 = 4.8 kg MgO/ha

An application of 0.24.24 at 160kg/ha would supply all the K and 8x the P. At £475/t then that's £76/ha, or £30/ac in product value, minus spreading cost.

Just had another thought on this. My calculation above is based on the assumption that 0.24.24 is 100% efficient. But is this the case?

 

[deleted user 837354]

Just had another thought on this. My calculation above is based on the assumption that 0.24.24 is 100% efficient. But is this the case?

You mean availability? That is an interesting question. I'd always assumed that you got what was on the bag.

With manures/slurries the availability of their nutrients varies, this is detailed in RB209 as well. To be honest, with the growth in poultry units, composting and AD plants, etc very few arable farmers should be putting on a lot of P and K from inorganic sources. The odd bit here and there to correct a known and identified issue from soil tests, manures and the like should be doing the rest. Fibrophos is far kinder to the soil than big lashings of TSP or something.

I know straw chopping is popular in places, I've nothing against it but it doesn't break down that fast, you can often see straw from the previous year under a crop if you look for it. You can't beat the added bonus manures bring to the party, you can usually tell from the crop photos on TFF how well fed the land is in each case. You get the same picture if you drive around the West country. I still generally know who owns which field and the difference is night and day.

 

[ajd132]

Not sure I agree with you.

We are only baling 150-180 acres to get 100 acres of FYM back at full rate (150acres at 66% rate).

Field 1 - Chopping almost every year for 40 years - 5% OM
Field 2 - Chop 35 yrs, remove straw for 4 years and add one application each of FYM, Compost and Digested sewage cake - 8% OM.

There is no way OM can go up 3% in four years. Most likely flawed loss on ignition test actually picking up a bit of muck or sewage in the sample. (If I’ve understood correctly apologies if not).

 

[warksfarmer]

Question the agronomist brought up yesterday
With a 0:24:24 ish type blend at c£475
Is it worth baling or should we chop chop chop

£50/tonne for straw then chop it as there’s no money in selling it after baling, stacking, loading is accounted for especially when you factor in any soil damage or look at the lost nutrient value. Straw needs to be over £70/t in order to bale it.

 

[Caseih85]

If it showery forecast and nobody wants to pay for it chopping look a good idea. I really will consider chopping some this time to let the pressure off abit