World market are we kidding ourselves???

[JMx]

i'd be also interested to know more about eastern Europe and turkey... should have v. low costs of production... i guess quite dangerous though given Syria etc...

 

[Bossfarmer]

View attachment 600774
Surely we have nothing to fear from the countries above us who receive the most? What can they import to us?

remember of the EU scotland is one of the lowest

 

[Bossfarmer]

There is a thing called diseconomies of scale once you reach a certain size.

in certain situations, scale is a massive problem to us on a world market level because nobody in the uk has it

 

[Bossfarmer]

View attachment 600774
Surely we have nothing to fear from the countries above us who receive the most? What can they import to us?

it shows you the need to support your own food supply the only ones that arent have hardly any people to feed, what about the rest in the EU, i suggest cheap imports of beef from ireland will flood into the UK even more so if our subs go we wont be able to compete with them the way we do now, and theyre already getting a much bigger flat rate payment than us

 

[Danllan]

Absolutely.
We had a girl come over from her family farm in Texas, 5000 cows, 12000 acres, 40 Mexicans, 12 Dutch foremen..
3 36 36 euro style parlours running 23 hours a day, and Dad spent the day studying world milk prices and working out how much to feed the cows and what.

Pretty scary when you think that is just a "family farm"...

...poor welfare standards though?...

It could well be argued that the Texan set-up you describe is, by definition, an environment of 'poor welfare'. But I'm biased, preferring all grass.

 

[rob1]

remember of the EU scotland is one of the lowest

You need to see how much each farmer is getting in pounds not percent of income, you could be getting 100% of you gross receipts from subs but still be unable to live if your sub was only £5000 a year whereas if your income was £200,000 but your sub only 5% you wouldnt give a monkeys, those figures are meaningless

 

[Bossfarmer]

Absolutely.
We had a girl come over from her family farm in Texas, 5000 cows, 12000 acres, 40 Mexicans, 12 Dutch foremen..
3 36 36 euro style parlours running 23 hours a day, and Dad spent the day studying world milk prices and working out how much to feed the cows and what.

Pretty scary when you think that is just a "family farm"

In saying that, she was so impressed by the grass to milk idea, cows eating food directly off the paddock, her family flew out to see it.
(I even taught Dad how to put cups on a cow, something he'd never done )

For us, the sweet spot is around USD2400T of powder, when it goes up, folks like that simply turn up the knobs and money comes out.

But "artificially low" beef prices?

A finished steer I can sell for a good profit at around £700.
That's realistically what you're looking at.

I'd still love to know more about my poor welfare standards though?

Is it my lambs I ringed at a day old, did I need a vet to come out to watch?

Is it the fact I'm allowed to bury a dead animal in a hole on my property, that must be why it's all only half price

I think it's because my government doesn't care if I sink or swim.
Same as yours.

i mean the world cereal price is artificially low as sub worldwide leads to overproduction, welfare standards are certainly poorer in nz if you look at labour units per ewe its clear you cant look after such a huge number in the same way we can here with our smaller flocks im told of dead animals just lying around

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It could well be argued that the Texan set-up you describe is, by definition, an environment of 'poor welfare'. But I'm biased, preferring all grass.

Me too.
The only thing that isn't grass fed here, is still on milk powder.
I don't believe in ruminants eating anything but grass, myself.

 

[Bossfarmer]

You need to see how much each farmer is getting in pounds not percent of income, you could be getting 100% of you gross receipts from subs but still be unable to live if your sub was only £5000 a year whereas if your income was £200,000 but your sub only 5% you would give a monkeys, those figures are meaningless

it doesnt get much fairer than payment per acre of which ours is one of the lowest

 

[Suckndiesel]

Did the Nz dollar not used to be a lot weaker, used to be 3 dollars to the pound, now it’s less than 2. Can’t see them getting rid of the subs boss farmer, it’s nice and easy for them to take a % of your payment if your naughty and it keeps a lot of civil servants in jobs!

 

[Danllan]

Me too.
The only thing that isn't grass fed here, is still on milk powder.
I don't believe in ruminants eating anything but grass, myself.

Ditto, but we do our best to allow browsing too. It isn't just a cheap way of keeping the hedges down because I'm tight , although that helps too. We also have periodic ivy dosing, usually cutting down most of that in the hedge on one side of each field each winter, the sheep love it and we give the cattle some too.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

i mean the world cereal price is artificially low as sub worldwide leads to overproduction, welfare standards are certainly poorer in nz if you look at labour units per ewe its clear you cant look after such a huge number in the same way we can here with our smaller flocks im told of dead animals just lying around

Maybe it's breeding sheep that can handle life?
Yes that's true of high country stations, where nature runs it's course- but no different to hill country sheep closer to home?
I'd venture that at least 90% are checked daily over lambing, if not more, and then left to rear their lambs in peace.
It is a good point, but I do feel that a few on here make a huge fuss about the lack of regulations when it's really just as it should be: the farmer is left to manage as he/she sees fit.
All the unproductive stock left NZ decades ago, really.
They had to.
It's selective breeding - UK stock need attention because they get it.
NZ stock don't need much at all, because we cull on everything and have done for decades, just as is happening now as flocks get bigger in the UK.
Some dead stock would need airlifted out, to be honest with you!
So practicality has to remain.

That's possibly what this post is about, we have the understanding of most of the population that some stuff just isn't practical to do (long may it stay that way)

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Ditto, but we do our best to allow browsing too. It isn't just a cheap way of keeping the hedges down because I'm tight , although that helps too. We also have periodic ivy dosing, usually cutting down most of that in the hedge on one side of each field each winter, the sheep love it and we give the cattle some too.

I'm aiming to get a lot of extra edible species established in areas I can't mow, tree lucerne for the bees and poplars etc as reserve for those months it forgets it didn't rain the month before...
One thing about climate change, you don't find many folk who don't believe in it down here!
But it seems like an opportunity to convert some of these little corners into gardens for the stock to browse.

 

[Pasty]

My kids always bleat about how the other one gets something more than they do but I just put it down to them being children and not grown up to either appreciate what they have or seeing what is really important in life.

I wonder what the 'welfare' argument is for breeding animals which need constant human intervention in order to survive in a mild climate. Seems risky and expensive to me.

 

[Brisel]

remember of the EU scotland is one of the lowest

And one of the highest per claimant, thanks to bigger farms in Scotland (with a greater % of SDA/LFASS)

 

[Rossymons]

If you're that worried about subsidies why not try diversifying into another sector of farming that has a high income??

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Did the Nz dollar not used to be a lot weaker, used to be 3 dollars to the pound, now it’s less than 2. Can’t see them getting rid of the subs boss farmer, it’s nice and easy for them to take a % of your payment if your naughty and it keeps a lot of civil servants in jobs!

3.3 now only 1.8.....

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I'm aiming to get a lot of extra edible species established in areas I can't mow, tree lucerne for the bees and poplars etc as reserve for those months it forgets it didn't rain the month before...
One thing about climate change, you don't mind many folk who don't believe in it down here!
But it seems like an opportunity to convert some of these little corners into gardens for the stock to browse.

There has allways been climate change, its a myth that its "new", but much like nature regardless of humans impact, adapt or die, oh wait thats the same for farming in Scotland without subsidies!

 

[caveman]

in certain situations, scale is a massive problem to us on a world market level because nobody in the uk has it

You are so fixated on subsidy.
You take the pee out of any body supplying niche markets and say it's impossible for you to do.
You really need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Forget about feeding the UK or even just Scotland.
In Scotch beef. You have one of the finest and most highly regarded meat brands on the planet. Even with intensive production. You could ride the wave and never produce too much for the most sophisticated and wealthiest punters in the world. From Bejing, Tokyo, Moscow, and all other points of the compass. Just get good at marketing to them and reap the rewards for yourself and your country. Keep the UK in the position of having so much foreign cash to hoover up cheap food from around the world for the plebs and you wont go far wrong.

 

[Bossfarmer]

You are so fixated on subsidy.
You take the pee out of any body supplying niche markets and say it's impossible for you to do.
You really need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Forget about feeding the UK or even just Scotland.
In Scotch beef. You have one of the finest and most highly regarded meat brands on the planet. Even with intensive production. You could ride the wave and never produce too much for the most sophisticated and wealthiest punters in the world. From Bejing, Tokyo, Moscow, and all other points of the compass. Just get good at marketing to them and reap the rewards for yourself and your country. Keep the UK in the position of having so much foreign cash to hoover up cheap food from around the world for the plebs and you wont go far wrong.

uve made it all sound so simple, the problem is with most consumers is the buy on price and beef in scotland is far more expensive to produce that countries with warmer climates i.e argentina, brazil and NZ added to that the highly subsidised irish beef is constantly flooding our market i think its you that needs to wake up get some practical experience of running a farming business in Scotland at current prices without subs before commenting further