Yara want to move to 750 kg bags

[melted welly]

Not that I’m their biggest fan but what is the HSE attitude to stacking fertiliser?
There’s plenty been said on here in the past about their attitude to stacking bales, judging what most farmers would view as safe stacks as being unsafe in their opinion.
In my opinion fertiliser is much harder to stack safely, nitrogen in particular. Since the move to 600kg bags I have only stacked two high and the taller urea bags only one high

pyramid the stack, can stack 4 high, limiting factor is shed roof and loader capacity. AN needs 1m gap between stacks, no closer than 1m to the walls and no more than 300t per stack.

Safety of the stack depends totally on how it’s built, see 2 high stacks that would swallow a man whole.....

heard a rumour that hse had a new recommendation that stacks shouldn’t exceed 3 high, but not mandatory....yet

Imported stuff comes over on boats 5,6,7 bags deep, and often upside down, depending on the humour/skill of the loading crew and how rough the passage was.

 

[roscoe erf]

Not that I’m their biggest fan but what is the HSE attitude to stacking fertiliser?
There’s plenty been said on here in the past about their attitude to stacking bales, judging what most farmers would view as safe stacks as being unsafe in their opinion.
In my opinion fertiliser is much harder to stack safely, nitrogen in particular. Since the move to 600kg bags I have only stacked two high and the taller urea bags only one high

they stack 6 high at ince

 

[wanton dwarf]

Cut the bag halfway up the side

Yeah we do that kind of thing but as the bag weight increases it's more likely to split. In fact some of the whole reusable bags for wheat split. Once had a bag of Wheat split whilts the old man was under it loading the seeder .. bags needs to be better quality and unfortunately all I see is a continued push for lower quality.

Needs a better method IMHO.

BUt going back to the main reason for this article .. isn't it time these bags were reusable ? High quality bags with a shoot that opens like wheat. Return the bags, no idiotic waste costs and the supplier gets to check their goods if safe reuse. Etc.

 

[An Gof]

Yeah we do that kind of thing but as the bag weight increases it's more likely to split. In fact some of the whole reusable bags for wheat split. Once had a bag of Wheat split whilts the old man was under it loading the seeder .. bags needs to be better quality and unfortunately all I see is a continued push for lower quality.

Needs a better method IMHO.

BUt going back to the main reason for this article .. isn't it time these bags were reusable ? High quality bags with a shoot that opens like wheat. Return the bags, no idiotic waste costs and the supplier gets to check their goods if safe reuse. Etc.

Get yourself of these

FLEDBAG® - The flexible Big Bag Dispenser | Dosing & Emptying

The innovative FLEDBAG® lets you empty big bags easily, quickly and precisely. Choose between FLEDBAG® Original, FLEDBAG® Easy and FLEDBAG® Profi.

www.fledbag.com

 

[wanton dwarf]

Get yourself of these

FLEDBAG® - The flexible Big Bag Dispenser | Dosing & Emptying

The innovative FLEDBAG® lets you empty big bags easily, quickly and precisely. Choose between FLEDBAG® Original, FLEDBAG® Easy and FLEDBAG® Profi.

www.fledbag.com

Can't seem to buy one .. but I could make one.

 

[An Gof]

Can't seem to buy one .. but I could make one.

eBay is your friend

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/VIDBAG-BIG...e&pageci=4c0e3744-9e1e-4045-bf21-2c94f085ea4b

[/URL]

 

[Cheesehead]

My guess would be for products other than urea, they do say for some products.
A standard urea bag would quite comfortably hold 750kgs of most other products.
Not sure what they’d be like for stacking though, 600kg bags of nitrogen are noticeably less stable than 500’s, I’m not sure 750’s would be safe stacked.

The last loads we have had on 15.10.10.10 and 33.5%AN+S have been a tight fit not only on the lorry but in the spreader to due to the change in prill size to the point the boards along the sides had damaged the outer bags of a couple.

Our tractor maybe rated enough to easily cope with 1500kg plus the weight of the spreader but it would rather necessitate purchasing front linkage with a larger weight block than 450kg to make it stable. Plus though the loader is rated 3 tonnes I would not wish to try 4 bags with it as due to the rolling of the drive in one spot it gets up close to the red on the thing now.

 

[Cheesehead]

they stack 6 high at ince

Rather them than me.

Some brands are atrocious at two high with some of the Eastern Europe branded fertiliser it has come with some looking as though they were sewn lopsided others that you had to either find something to put underneath to get it to sit straight or position it so it leaned into the stack Yara bags are better and more uniform but I would not want feel safe myself stacking them more than two high with as narrow as the diameter of them is. Height wise it is a tight fitgetting them out of curtain-siders as it is but no matter how often we say no to them due to low trees they always send it on them usually on the biggest lorry they can to the point they have on at least one occasion turned around and headed back stating that they can't get through which usually just means they have another driver come instead with the same trailer.

 

[quattro]

Rather them than me.

Some brands are atrocious at two high with some of the Eastern Europe branded fertiliser it has come with some looking as though they were sewn lopsided others that you had to either find something to put underneath to get it to sit straight or position it so it leaned into the stack Yara bags are better and more uniform but I would not want feel safe myself stacking them more than two high with as narrow as the diameter of them is. Height wise it is a tight fitgetting them out of curtain-siders as it is but no matter how often we say no to them due to low trees they always send it on them usually on the biggest lorry they can to the point they have on at least one occasion turned around and headed back stating that they can't get through which usually just means they have another driver come instead with the same trailer.

A lot of foreign stuff is mis shaped on the boat

 

[crazy_bull]

going back to the main reason for this article .. isn't it time these bags were reusable ? High quality bags with a shoot that opens like wheat. Return the bags, no idiotic waste costs and the supplier gets to check their goods if safe reuse. Etc.

Sod that, imagine the logistical nightmare getting them back then inspecting each one for damage before bring refilled. I certainly wouldn't want to be re using some which have been bundled in the back of a shed with mice eating through them and sharp pallet tines scoring the lifting loops.

One thing saving the seed bags to be re-used by yourself knowing how they have been store and handled. Even these very high quality bags have a limited life span, had a couple of instances this year of 2 year old seed that had been stored in open sided shed in direct sunlight failing on lifting as UV makes the plastic brittle.

It's an admiral attempt to reduce waste, but aren't most recyclable?

C B

 

[Steevo]

Sod that, imagine the logistical nightmare getting them back then inspecting each one for damage before bring refilled. I certainly wouldn't want to be re using some which have been bundled in the back of a shed with mice eating through them and sharp pallet tines scoring the lifting loops.

One thing saving the seed bags to be re-used by yourself knowing how they have been store and handled. Even these very high quality bags have a limited life span, had a couple of instances this year of 2 year old seed that had been stored in open sided shed in direct sunlight failing on lifting as UV makes the plastic brittle.

It's an admiral attempt to reduce waste, but aren't most recyclable?

C B

I've had 2/3 year old fertiliser bags turn weak in a dark shed too.....worse still the fertiliser settles and goes solid but you can't bounce the bags easily without risking them spltting. I wouldn't fancy someone sending those back.

It's bad enough the condition that that supermarket deliveries recycled bags come out looking like......and they're only risking the beer!!

 

[wanton dwarf]

It's an admiral attempt to reduce waste, but aren't most recyclable?

If the bags were of a slightly higher grade I bet you could get many uses per bag - it wuld be down to the company to inspect the bags - which they should already be doing - or they over fill bags with weight to test viability.

I doubt it most plastic is recycled as it's not worth doing so. Only food grade plastic has any real value.

Why would you risk chemicals in your products which may well be poisonous ? I bet no farm waste is recycled. It's probably burnt.

 

[melted welly]

Rather them than me.

Some brands are atrocious at two high with some of the Eastern Europe branded fertiliser it has come with some looking as though they were sewn lopsided others that you had to either find something to put underneath to get it to sit straight or position it so it leaned into the stack Yara bags are better and more uniform but I would not want feel safe myself stacking them more than two high with as narrow as the diameter of them is. Height wise it is a tight fitgetting them out of curtain-siders as it is but no matter how often we say no to them due to low trees they always send it on them usually on the biggest lorry they can to the point they have on at least one occasion turned around and headed back stating that they can't get through which usually just means they have another driver come instead with the same trailer.

sometimes the imported N has 2 different types of bag in the same boat load seen a 6” to a foot difference in height and the bags mixed in the lorry loads. Makes stacking a bit interesting.

stuff below was loaded on to the boat on Xmas day 2020. Our neighbour helps emptying the boats, said it looked like they’d just put the boom out and dumped the bags in over the side. lot of them upside down and a serious amount Mis-shapen, especially near the bottom.

Can occasionally make a purse out of a pigs ear tho

4 high is high enough if you don’t have anyone to lift the loops when loading out

 

[Steevo]

sometimes the imported N has 2 different types of bag in the same boat load ☹ seen a 6” to a foot difference in height and the bags mixed in the lorry loads. Makes stacking a bit interesting.

stuff below was loaded on to the boat on Xmas day 2020. Our neighbour helps emptying the boats, said it looked like they’d just put the boom out and dumped the bags in over the side. lot of them upside down and a serious amount Mis-shapen, especially near the bottom.

Can occasionally make a purse out of a pigs ear tho

View attachment 936787


4 high is high enough if you don’t have anyone to lift the loops when loading out

You've done very well there!

I can never decide the best way to stack them, but it looks like you've done a great job of that. I usually stack two high, one back directly on top of another. I can see the sense crossing the cracks, but that can lead to instability too I find. Do you cross the cracks by half a bag front to back also?

Certainly it's a lot easier adding to an existing stable stack with a pattern than it is building it up from scratch.

 

[Still Farming]

Forcing the small user out again and made to pay through the nose for small quantities everytime ?

 

[Rob Holmes]

Re. re-using bags,
Why do we even have to use bags? Why not use plastic boxes, or totes similar to what they use in the USA

 

[melted welly]

You've done very well there!

I can never decide the best way to stack them, but it looks like you've done a great job of that. I usually stack two high, one back directly on top of another. I can see the sense crossing the cracks, but that can lead to instability too I find. Do you cross the cracks by half a bag front to back also?

Certainly it's a lot easier adding to an existing stable stack with a pattern than it is building it up from scratch.

Thanks, get a bit of practice........we took in 3000t over 2 days with that, should’ve been a day and a half but the guys on the boat had a hell of a job getting the bags out.

We’ll unload in sixes, that’s your first row in the shed, then a row of fours on top, then twos. Then you just crack on with lifts of 6.

Handy tip is to thread the loops of the 2nd row of bags thru the rearmost row and pull them fwd, then when you drop the next layer on top it locks the handles of the back row fwd and stops the bags slumping and slouching over backwards. Especially useful with AN as it can be akin to trying t stack bags of water.

 

[Still Farming]

Re. re-using bags,
Why do we even have to use bags? Why not use plastic boxes, or totes similar to what they use in the USA

Or bio upgradeable ,eco friendly, low carbon footprint packaging ?

 

[Fendt820]

Yeah can’t see a problem really. We had 1000kg bags and were awesome.

 

[Steevo]

Thanks, get a bit of practice........we took in 3000t over 2 days with that, should’ve been a day and a half but the guys on the boat had a hell of a job getting the bags out. ☹

We’ll unload in sixes, that’s your first row in the shed, then a row of fours on top, then twos. Then you just crack on with lifts of 6.

Handy tip is to thread the loops of the 2nd row of bags thru the rearmost row and pull them fwd, then when you drop the next layer on top it locks the handles of the back row fwd and stops the bags slumping and slouching over backwards. Especially useful with AN as it can be akin to trying t stack bags of water.

That's a very clever tip!!! Thank you very much.

Shifting 3000t in 2 days you'd certainly know what you are talking about!!! No wonder you have melted wellies at that speed!!!

May I ask a bit more background please? 3000t is an ENORMOUS amount of fert (£0.75m at £250/t! ) Do you store it on behalf of someone......or is your surname Dyson?