Time for common sense on labour issues
As I write this column, I am sitting in a hotel room in the beautiful Highlands of Scotland enjoying a short break travelling around this wonderful…
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Time for common sense on labour issues
As I write this column, I am sitting in a hotel room in the beautiful Highlands of Scotland enjoying a short break travelling around this wonderful…
Priti Patel has evidently deemed a knowledge of Emu's and Cheese rolling is essential for any EU butcher. 
ollie989898
Member
I am confused.
Ok, so to work abroad in places like the USA, Canada or Australia, you would need an employer, or sponsor, to vouch for your work application/VISA. Now, obviously, unless you are skilled and have a workable command of English (or maybe French in Canada) an employer isn't going to do this.
Why do business owners assume that the UK should just accept anyone 'because we are short of labour'? It doesn't work that well mate. You've built a business model that relies on labour of this kind, not society at large. You can't get staff willing to work in the conditions you have created for the wage you have stipulated, nobody else decided that.
You want the staff, you sign up and sponsor them and pay the price if they abscond. Why the heck should society pick up the tab.
Ok, so to work abroad in places like the USA, Canada or Australia, you would need an employer, or sponsor, to vouch for your work application/VISA. Now, obviously, unless you are skilled and have a workable command of English (or maybe French in Canada) an employer isn't going to do this.
Why do business owners assume that the UK should just accept anyone 'because we are short of labour'? It doesn't work that well mate. You've built a business model that relies on labour of this kind, not society at large. You can't get staff willing to work in the conditions you have created for the wage you have stipulated, nobody else decided that.
You want the staff, you sign up and sponsor them and pay the price if they abscond. Why the heck should society pick up the tab.
No need to be confused. The working conditions are excellent. Wages are well above Minimum wage and living wage. Most of the butchers who work for our members get between £35K and £50k per annum with the opportunity for bonuses on top.
The reality is, if you want to enter the UK to work you need to have 70 immigration points. Most overseas butchers from non-English speaking countries can get to 60. The meat industry is offering to train those staff to get the 10 language points required within 12 months of arrival.
So, why few if any applicants from the UK domestic labour force to be a butcher. Quite simply because it isn't seen as a career choice. Take for example T-Levels. You can do a T-Level in boat building or beauty or accountancy but there are NO dedicated T-levels in any Food processing industry. The Government's Lifetime Skills Guarantee offering free L3 courses to the unemployed and employed to help them up-skill. 400+ courses on offer, just 2 in the food industry (both in food technology) and no sign of the L3 Butchery course anywhere.
The food industry, not just the meat industry, need a workforce who are reliable and well trained and at present the UK pool of labour isn't where it can be found
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
All the labour shortages are not really to do with lack on immigrants. Yes some have left, but the vast majority of the loss of workers is home grown ones. Of the c. 1m workers who have left the labour force, about two thirds are Uk citizens who still live here, but are no longer working.
www.telegraph.co.uk
Why has this happened? Lockdowns of course. People have been forced to stop working, and many people close to retirement have realised they were only working through habit, they could actually live more simply, and decided to bring forward their retirement plans, or downsize their employment by leaving a full time job and getting a part time one until their pension kicks in. Or they have realised they hate their jobs and can get by with a simpler part time working lifestyle.
This is entirely the government's own doing, by introducing lockdowns. They imagined in their naivety that they could stop everything dead, then press a button and it would all go back to how it was. The economy doesn't work like that, its a living breathing thing - if you stop it working some of it is going to die.
Just the other day I was talking to a charity worker, who had come to look at some old furniture I wanted to get rid of and was unwilling to just smash up. He said that pre-covid he'd have been able to take it and sell it on as he used to have a whole team of volunteers who would restore and renovate old furniture and sell it on ebay and raise funds for the charity. Now they're all gone, and the charity can only take furniture in perfect order either to sell in their shops or donate to people in need. Thats the kind of small cogs of society that lockdowns destroy.
Almost 1m people leave the workforce as staff shortages worsen
Recruitment woes may last for years following an exodus of foreign-born workers and others leaving the labour market, warns think tank
www.telegraph.co.uk
Why has this happened? Lockdowns of course. People have been forced to stop working, and many people close to retirement have realised they were only working through habit, they could actually live more simply, and decided to bring forward their retirement plans, or downsize their employment by leaving a full time job and getting a part time one until their pension kicks in. Or they have realised they hate their jobs and can get by with a simpler part time working lifestyle.
This is entirely the government's own doing, by introducing lockdowns. They imagined in their naivety that they could stop everything dead, then press a button and it would all go back to how it was. The economy doesn't work like that, its a living breathing thing - if you stop it working some of it is going to die.
Just the other day I was talking to a charity worker, who had come to look at some old furniture I wanted to get rid of and was unwilling to just smash up. He said that pre-covid he'd have been able to take it and sell it on as he used to have a whole team of volunteers who would restore and renovate old furniture and sell it on ebay and raise funds for the charity. Now they're all gone, and the charity can only take furniture in perfect order either to sell in their shops or donate to people in need. Thats the kind of small cogs of society that lockdowns destroy.
Thanks for your post. Really interesting. There is an opportunity with your local prisons. They will refurbish old furniture and then donate to good causes. Many also refurbish bikes now! Conatct Lance Harris at New Futures Network and he'll be able to advise [email protected]All the labour shortages are not really to do with lack on immigrants. Yes some have left, but the vast majority of the loss of workers is home grown ones. Of the c. 1m workers who have left the labour force, about two thirds are Uk citizens who still live here, but are no longer working.
Almost 1m people leave the workforce as staff shortages worsen
Recruitment woes may last for years following an exodus of foreign-born workers and others leaving the labour market, warns think tank
Why has this happened? Lockdowns of course. People have been forced to stop working, and many people close to retirement have realised they were only working through habit, they could actually live more simply, and decided to bring forward their retirement plans, or downsize their employment by leaving a full time job and getting a part time one until their pension kicks in. Or they have realised they hate their jobs and can get by with a simpler part time working lifestyle.
This is entirely the government's own doing, by introducing lockdowns. They imagined in their naivety that they could stop everything dead, then press a button and it would all go back to how it was. The economy doesn't work like that, its a living breathing thing - if you stop it working some of it is going to die.
Just the other day I was talking to a charity worker, who had come to look at some old furniture I wanted to get rid of and was unwilling to just smash up. He said that pre-covid he'd have been able to take it and sell it on as he used to have a whole team of volunteers who would restore and renovate old furniture and sell it on ebay and raise funds for the charity. Now they're all gone, and the charity can only take furniture in perfect order either to sell in their shops or donate to people in need. Thats the kind of small cogs of society that lockdowns destroy.
capfits
Member
Probably cause they see the state do it in the NHS, military and other areas.....
Roger Perry
Member
10 million job openings available in the U.S. right now, the shortage of truck drivers is causing problems in all sectors.............fancy being a trucker, come on over.!
caveman
Member
- Location
- East Sussex.
Here is similar.
Trucking is obviously not first choice for many when there are more attractive ways to earn a crust.
It'll be the core hard workers who have made the choice for a better work/life balance.
What do we need?
Less jobs.
Or a better deal for truckers.
wanton dwarf
Member
I'll tell you why so few people from the UK apply to be butchers. It will be because it pays UK employers not to employ UK workers.
No Employers NI, no UK pensions and no commitment to UK training, H&S etc.
I bet if your organisation was investigated we'd find you are not looking for UK people - as was shown for many other companies complaining. It's all about paying lower wages, dodging Company Taxes and liabilities.
I'd also point out that Rishy stopped some people - which includes some immigrants - from abusing income tax rules via umbrella agencies. Whilst that tax route was available - those using such routes had an effective wage 25% to 40% higher than those paying PAYE.
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Please explain how it is possible to employ staff in the UK whilst avoiding NI & pension payments. You pay on the basis of the Country they are employed in, not where they originated from.
As to the original article, I think the butcher mentioned in the story who had three staff start on a Monday and all leave by Thursday needs to consider whats wrong inside his business.
wanton dwarf
Member
Contractors and sub contractors are similar. Self employed and limited companies. Contractors work for the Umbrella agency - which shields the real employer from liabilities. Been around for 30 years that I know of.
Contractors can fall foul of IR35 - but Umbrella companies didn't, not sure now because out of the loop.
They pay their own wages to themselves. The real employer paying the subcontractor doesn't pay company NI, pensions, training, H&S etc.
I suspect they were using a personal company so avoided most taxes etc, the reason many arent working now is the IR35 clampdown
Beat me to it
wanton dwarf
Member
Was gonna just say look it up ... I appologised to some HGV drivers recently because I didn't know the immigrant workers were not paying tax. Must have been totally demoralising to be treated differently doing the same job.
Yep a real slap in the face for "employed" uk drivers where others get to keep more of their earnings and a saving for companies avoiding nat ins and pensions and of course all uk tax payers losing out as well as less tax receipts. It's funny why the bbc dont mention this as a reason some have left the uk especially as many working in the media use the company route to avoid tax, it's as if they have an agenda, surely not
wanton dwarf
Member
And then having paid less tax to do the same job we had all the employers and the immigrant workers telling us that UK peoples (Despite working for less take home) were lazy. Remember, that was for years - used to see it in the comments everywhere.
It stinks.
wanton dwarf
Member
I think the companies involved in these activities should be hit with a windfall tax - "social justice" demands it.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
The article in the OP says one company hired an experienced butcher and 2 apprentice's but they left within a week. OK maybe the apprentice's didn't realise what they signed up for but what about the experienced butcher. I don't think many of these companies have a labour problem they have a retention problem. Maybe work on fixing that instead of complaining that there isn't a long line of replacements?
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